The Brexit prophecies

By Jon Morgan

In the lead up to the Brexit referendum, several Christian groups claimed that the Bible predicted a Leave vote, including many Christadelphians. When the Leave vote succeeded, they were quick to claim this trivial prediction as a stunning validation of the complete Bible message and a sign of impending Armageddon. However, while Brexit still seems likely to happen in some form, this year has seen it throw the UK parliamentary process into chaos, with no clear end in sight.

While I don’t think scripture makes any statement on Brexit, I do think this saga has some important lessons about Bible prophecy interpretation that stretch far beyond Brexit. It’s all here: A crystal-ball gazing seer, Armageddon, even a reference to my favourite fiction from last year. Some of it is mocking, but I don’t apologise - if Christadelphians didn’t want that, they should have chosen something better than Brexit to nail their colours to the mast over.

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54 comments:

  1. If Boris wins next Thursday and starts the brexit process, I'm sure most CDs will be whipped into a frenzy as they listen to triumphant lectures about how accurately the events of the world are panning out.
    But at the same time, their older failed prophecies will be quietly swept under the carpet and ignored as they focus on this latest development.

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    1. Mark,
      I see that as a good thing, elderly christadelpphians (80%+ of UK Christadelhians are over 60) crowing about brexit success while living off their fat pension pots, and declaring Jesus to be back "within a generation", will only have the effect of further distancing themselves from the young people that they already fail to attract.
      CD families are split by the brexit issue already, and those in their thirties and early forties are ever less likely to wish to lead what has become a band of aggressive and deluded pensioners.
      I'll make a prediction now. In 25 years time, 90% of Christadelphians alive today will be dead.....

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  2. Jon,
    Could you share the link for that picture of the banner holders? I seem to recall that this was a stunt organised by "bibleinthenews", who at the time linked a video showing the two grinning poster holders being more interested in their smartphones than spreading the gospel. I'm sure it was at some sort of recent brexit rally in London, but I've had a look on the site and can't find it now. I recall being surprised that Christadelphians had actually got involved in a political event.

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  3. Joseph, I saw it on the ex-CD Facebook group, and it was part of the protests on the original Brexit date (29 March). It can be seen in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pykn3_J99pc (around the 2:21 mark), and also referenced, as you say, in a Bible in the News podcast at http://www.bibleinthenews.com/Podcasts/648. I'm sure I saw other CD sources discussing it at the time, but can't find the links.

    Like you, I was surprised by Christadelphians being involved in a political event.

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    1. Thanks Jon, that's the one. I could not recall the date, I was searching a bit too recently. Yes, one of leading Christadelphian Crank Matt Davies efforts. Matt is part of Nottingham Forest Road, which no surprise is also registered as a charity, so could just possibly be using tax relief to make political statement such as this.

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  4. Well, the Conservatives won the election conclusively, like they were expected to, and so I saw another excited post about how Brexit was paving the way for Armageddon (though it seems to have since been deleted).

    My conclusion remains the same: The Bible didn't prophesy Brexit, and so, whether Brexit happens or not, it does nothing to establish the truth of the Bible.

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  5. I reiterate my own thinking that Ex-Christadelphianism is not a position that you should take, but rather it is a journey you undertake to escape the religion. It should be a temporary phase in your life. It should be a healing process. But you will never heal if you keep picking at the psychological wounds inflicted on you by the Christadelphians. You have to get them out of your life and out of your mind completely. Worrying about Christadelphian Brexit and all their other tosh is not healthy. Try to get yourself to the state of mind where you can mentally resign from the Ex-Christadelphians and move on, without giving this religion another thought. Swim in the ocean of reason and rational thinking and don't be tempted back into the dank Christadelphian swamp of Brexit, Gog and all of the other nonsense that blighted our lives for so long. Get over it. Erase the Christadelphians from your mind and delete this website from your favourites. They are doing a fantastic job here, but think of this website as a hospital. Once they have got you mentally well, thank them, leave, and never return, or you will not fully recover.

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    1. Hello John.
      Good advice, but it`s not easy to achieve. So many little reminders. Even driving past a CD meeting hall, taking a pinch of bread between the fingers from a breadboard, and some of us do meet with Christadelphian friends. Doesn`t stop me from being relieved to be out, but the reminders are for ever?

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    2. John, any reader is of course welcome to read as little or as much as they like, and has the freedom to choose any life path they wish free of the constraints Christadelphian teachings and practice places on them. That is what I have done, after all - writing about religion is just one part of a life far more varied than my Christadelphian life was. While I only post articles here that I think have valid critiques of Christadelphians or might be useful to ex-Christadelphians, anyone is welcome to check out the rest of my posts to see the balance. Analysing and recovering from religion is a significant component of my blog (the religion was a significant part of my first 25 - 30 years), but it's not everything.

      I've said before, I don't think the gold standard is having zero contact with Christadelphia, particularly for those like me with family and friend connections they wish to maintain. I think a much more important standard is whether it controls me, and I can fairly confidently say now it doesn't control me, at all. I hope that posts like this can be useful to others, but a big part of them is for me. Writing things out in exhaustive and sometimes exhausting detail helps me better understand my former beliefs, and then makes it possible for me to confidently dismiss them. Hence their having no control over me. Freedom from that control is showed in being able to question, deconstruct and mock teachings that were once so important to me.

      Religion is a very human endeavour, and tells us all kinds of interesting things about humans. It can be frustrating, or entertaining, or tragic, or fascinating.

      In trying to understand more about religion in general, not just my former religion, I have been able to understand myself better, to understand the world better, and along the way have made some great friends (most but not all ex-Christians) with whom I discuss all kinds of things (not just religion).  It wasn't what I set out to do or expected to do when leaving Christadelphia, but it works for me.

      Fast forward five or ten years, and I probably hope that I wouldn't have the need to write as much about religion as I do now. But I also hope that I would still be in close contact with my family, many of whom will probably still be Christadelphian.

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    3. I have long left the thrall of christadelphia behind, but still have close family and friends who are deeply involved with them. I visit here now and again, not to pick at old wounds, but because I am fascinated by the willingness of intelligent people to accept the teachings of an ancient collection of fables. Members of my own family have their minds fuddled and their lives stagnated by their lifelong indoctrination. Unable to see beyond the echo chamber they inhabit, they live in hope of a fantasy world that will never arrive.
      I find it baffling that otherwise normal adults with all the comforts and knowledge that the 21st century can provide are so gullible.

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  6. Wasnt predicited to be a landslide victory.Polls are not 100% Gospel always.

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    1. The combination of the way the First Past the Post voting system was expected to work and the general Brexit landscape meant that the Conservatives were more likely to get a majority, and as a result that Brexit was more likely to happen in some form. That's not certainties, just probabilities.

      But the bottom line is still that Brexit has nothing to do with Bible prophecy.

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    2. Paul, of course polls are not 100%, that is why we have elections. Polls are so we can get an idea of what is going on before we go to bed, it makes for better TV!
      What on earth do you mean by "Gospel always"? Some religious nonsense?

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    3. It took a matter of hours before Christadelphians were off on their usual prophecy babble other the election result. It may have been wiser for them to look at what went wrong for the party that resoundingly lost and see if they could learn anything from that.
      The leader was old, had ideas and policies from 35 years ago, and believed that these same policies would appeal to those not even born 35 years ago.
      The policies were formed by a small group that did not represent the country as a whole, but rather had been put into place by those already sympathetic to their ideas.
      The policies were heavily promoted to, and mostly believed by young people with little life experience, who lived inside a social media bubble of reinforcement, with little ability to evaluate other alternative realities.
      They had policies and plans that those outside their bubble described as "wish lists", a health service without funding limits, reduced working hours, free broadband, new houses, new boilers,taking money off the rich, all free! (sounds like an earthly version of the Kingdom), not surprisingly, few believed them. Few believe the Christadelphians either.

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    4. Which is just what Christ actally predicted would be the case.
      "For many are called FEW chosen".

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    5. Ex. Christadelphian, have you ever wondered how many different small denominations with conflicting interpretations of the Bible quote the "many called, few chosen" verse?

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    6. Ex.Christadelphian, since you are "Ex.Christadelphian", is it safe to assume that you were not chosen?

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    7. At the time when those words were spoken/written, the "chosen" sect was a tiny minority, and so in that light it is surely no surprise for them to "predict" their own situation at the time. No religious writer (as far as I am aware) ever claimed that their own religion was not the correct one. They all instead wanted everyone to believe theirs was special and unique.

      It is a fact that the vast majority of religious sects will not survive and of those that do, most will remain a minority. Thus the prediction that only a "few" would be chosen seems unimpressive since that is the most likely outcome for any sect. If the sect disappears, well then there is no one to remember the quotation so there is no issue there either.

      It is actually far more difficult (and less likely) for someone to predict that their sect will NOT be the few. The odds are stacked well against it, especially the longer time goes on.

      But the real interesting thing is, as Jon mentioned, how every denomination applies those same verses to themselves. I'm sure even the not-so-small denominations have their own interpretation for why such verses still apply to them.

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  7. I don't think any of us really know either way..100%.

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  8. Just using slang for polls being 100%. You didnt get my slang.

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    1. No worries Paul. I get it now. Keep contributing.

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  9. Think we will butt heads eventually..but too bad.. will do!😉

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  10. I suspect the Christadelphian excitement over Brexit is inversely proportional to the number of their predictions they actually expect will come true. Their reaction smacks of something along the lines of "wow, we got one right!" - and that's on an event with only 2 possible outcomes.

    I agree with Jon. The Bible never predicted Britain would join the EU, nor did it predict Britain would leave. I also agree further that the Bible never predicted the EU either.

    But for those Christadelphians who see Brexit as a sign of an almighty, intelligent god slowly working out its perfect plan for humanity, I can only assume we're not looking at the same unfolding of events.

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  11. Just a post election, post holiday season update. UK Christadelphians are once again promoting the beliefs of Jim Cowie with regard to Brexit, and specifically, how the actual vote was not really a vote at all. They are repeating the previously stated belief that because the vote was running close, God specifically sent rain over from continental Europe, to ensure that 2 million southern UK voters could not vote remain.
    My conclusion is that since this has now been repeated several times in presentations, that it is now held to be a correct belief. I have to say that as a lifelong resident of the UK, some bad weather did not strike me as odd in any way, it's just the normal thing here, however, since this belief has never to my knowledge been challenged by Christadelphians, I now accept that forms part of their religious beliefs.
    Likewise, the same talk (referenced below) clarifies the Christadelphian belief, stated regularly, that we are only a "generation" away from the return of Christ. In fact Jim Cowie makes it clear that for various reasons, as we have now left Europe, The raising of the dead/return of Christ/Armageddon will occur in 2030. I actually found it difficult to understand what was predicted for 2030 (please watch from 23:30 and let me have your thoughts). I'm not 100% certain if Christ is back in 2030, with Armageddon in 2040?
    What I am expecting to see now that this has been clarified, is some considerable changes in how Christadelphians live their lives, I'm expecting to see pension pots being emptied and houses and businesses sold,holidays cancelled etc, and a real focus on spreading this truth throughout the world, 24/7/365. I also expect the young adults in my former family to abandon ideas of higher education (since it will be pointless, Jesus will be back within a few short years of them qualifying), and concentrating instead on the religion, with the brethren and sisters supporting them in this work.
    I am genuinely surprised that the Christadelphians have taken these things onboard as facts, because I have heard that some UK Ecclesias are as split down the middle on the issue as the general population, with some quite senior members very unhappy at the stance taken.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLKhXxRQIYE

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    1. Thanks, Joseph.

      As I said in my article, I was in London on the day of the referendum (visited Hampton Court Palace, actually). I remember it as a wet day with some line closures, but I guess I was lucky - it didn't stop me doing anything I wanted to do. I saw the comments about the weather affecting voting in the news before Christadelphians jumped on it, ran the numbers, and decided I didn't think it would make a difference. And the numbers in that talk match my conclusion: He claims 2 million people were prevented from voting, and assumes they would have all voted remain. But it was actually more like 60 - 70% voting remain in those areas, so it wouldn't be enough to overcome the 1.2 million deficit. As I put it in my article: "London doesn’t have the population to overrule the rest of the UK". I got in a Facebook debate over it a day or two later, but hadn't heard anything about it since. Sad that it has popped up again.

      I only watched about 5 minutes from the point you mentioned, and couldn't take any more. Even if you accept the Bible what was said is complete nonsense - and I don't accept the Bible anyway.

      The Bible does not say Tarshish is Britain. The Bible does not focus in any way on the two legs in Daniel's image. And the Bible most definitely does not say anything about whether Australia or NZ will change their flag or become a republic (I'd like one of Australia or NZ to change their flag just because they're too similar to each other).

      I didn't understand the 10 year thing either. Not a clue what he's talking about, or how Brexit, the resurrection of the dead, and Armageddon are meant to fit together. I remember at a youth group camp years ago someone tried to explain to me how all the different year gaps worked, and it made no sense to me then. So I'm not in any hurry to understand it now I reject the Bible...

      The same channel there is also a presentation "Could Christ Return in 2020?" I only skimmed through it, but it didn't seem any more useful.

      On your expectations, though, I'm assuming that is sarcasm? I've never observed Christadelphians changing their way of life so radically, though the return of Christ has been considered near since before I was born.

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    2. Jon,
      I suspect that Jim Cowie is not perhaps familiar with UK weather, and as you have correctly pointed out, there was never any evidence that the vote disruption was significant. On that day I was working further north, near Norwich, and there was severe local flooding around 17:00. This was in an area that vote over 70% to leave, so it would be unclear why God's angelic storm guiders would have caused such disruption in an area that was so clearly voting the way that God wanted them to. To most intelligent people, there is nothing to this tale other than coincidence.
      As I've stated before, the actual result for the Christadelphians of this level of "support" for brexit, is likely to take its toll over the next few years.Already struggling for membership, they have now excluded 48% of the UK population, and will have made those within the group with less fanatical ideas, wonder a little more if the religion is actually right for them, and if they are comfortable promoting it's stance. Crucially, as this poll shows:

      https://www.statista.com/statistics/520954/brexit-votes-by-age/

      They have actually managed to alienate more like 73% of their target for membership. For a tiny group that manages to recruit fewer than 20 new members from outside of existing family members,this could very quickly prove devastating. There is also a feeling here that associates brexit with old people, and far-right groups.
      The Tarshish nonsense is just that, but has occupied their thoughts for far too long.
      There is an element of sarcasm in my expectations, but not entirely. I travel the country quite a bit, and I have noticed that the JW's have greatly increased their efforts in recent months, and have been spending many hours out in the cold and wet, showing far more dedication to the cause than Christadelphians ever do. There are a number of young people in what used to be my Christadelphian family (as well as my own kids who have not been brought up as Christadelphians).It will be interesting to see if these people accept what they are being taught by their Christadelphian families, because it hardly seems sensible to go through all the higher education if they genuinely believe that the Kingdom is so close at hand. My experience (limited) tells me that many, if not most, Christadelphians live double lives, saying one thing for the meeting, but doing and living something entirely different in the outside world, whilst fabricating all sorts of reasons for behaving that way, and not always realising that nobody on the outside is fooled for a moment.
      If you read the comments on those videos, you will notice that they are never, ever, critisised by Christadelphians. That is why I believe that the vast bulk of them are accepting what is said as truth, along with the fact that the channels promoters have the backing af dozens of UK Ecclesias, and non of the rest show any dissent.

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  12. What with fires, floods, volcano eruptions, now we have the Coronavirus sufferers driven away to isolation in FOUR HORSEMAN coaches. (Reading UK based company)

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    1. Driving past a church here a couple of times today, I saw their noticeboard.
      On one side: "There's a disease worse than coronavirus. It's called sin, and Jesus is the cure".
      On the other side something like: "2020 vision: See how Jesus can improve your life".

      Good Omens did the bikies of the apocalypse so much better...

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    2. Mancott, many thanks for linking what has to be the most hilarious twaddle of the year thus far! I would think this should lift Matt Davies blood pressure to at least 160/120 and be sure of at least an hour on the "bibletruthandprophecy" channel.
      Ebola was a "warning", The murder of UK nationals in tunisia was a sign, so yes, Corona (NOT the delivery to home pop supplier to the midlands, remember them?) will be another.

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    3. "Jesus is the cure" Could well be. Chhristadelphianism surely is not.

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    4. If Jesus is the cure I don't know what the disease is.

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    5. Well according to the Christadelphian view, God invented both viruses and sin. I don't know how Christianity works any more. Something about not letting your left brain know what your right brain is thinking...

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    6. Thom, It doesn't work. It's a mental health condition. Also thanks for your latest posts over on your blog. I can identify with most of what you have written.

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  13. Short memory boys. What about the Spanish flu.. have a Dr google up on that one.

    How many did it kill?? Shocking !

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    1. As it happens, I was talking with colleagues about the Spanish flu yesterday. Societally it was particularly devastating coming at the end of WW1 and with younger adults more affected.

      The current coronavirus, while already serious, is being treated seriously because of its pandemic potential. And almost certainly the Spanish flu wouldn't have affected so many if we had had the treatments and procedures now available a hundred years ago - treating coronavirus more seriously is our way of trying to make the final result less serious.

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    2. I'm sure that Corona, Ebola, Spanish Flu and all the rest are just accepted by Christadelphians as "wonders" of God's creation. The same way that Butterflies, Koalas, and other cute things are.

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    3. Joseph, Monty Python certainly realised that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEKDYIYMgBc

      I imagine many Christadelphians will take it as the will of God, at least, perhaps something preparing for the return of Jesus or showing how unhappy God is with the world and the people he supposedly created.

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  14. Was trying to say that there has been worse diseases over the years than this one..at this point anyway.

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    1. Paul, yes there have. It is also worth considering that this latest disease appears to have a fatality rate of about 2%, and as a generalization, many of those seem to be compromised by pre-existing conditions/age/circumstance.
      If you take a look at "bibleinthenews.com", 15th Feb 2020 (repeated by UK leadership of Christadelphians), you will see the Christadelphian finger very clearly claiming that the problem has been caused by food practices and sanitation in the areas most affected, and that it could have been avoided by following selectively following the law of Moses. It then goes on to attempt to whip up panic by claiming that men's hearts are failing them for fear. (looks like nothing of the sort to me, just that people are concerned and governments are taking reasonable precautions).
      Similar claims have been made before, over Ebola, and should be treated with similar skepticism. Also note that the article does not have a single word of sympathy or concern for those affect. Just the normal hardline religious fire fanning.(Some of it seems to have been lifted from the Jerusalem Post)
      Linking in to something that Thom has said here, a Christadelphian who I am vaguely familiar with recently self published a book about her personal life living with cystic fibrosis, I've only skipped through it, but it seems to be more an account of how modern man made medicine has enabled her to live a much longer life than my friend, Kay, who died aged 11 in 1974 ever could.
      I am afraid that no amount of looking into the law of Moses will help with her condition, but a modern health service, numerous state provided drugs and treatments, and dedicated researchers and doctors, has enabled her to become a mother, and lead a full life. To stop all that, and rely on Mosaic laws would be a death sentence within weeks. But for bizarre religious reasons Christadelphians are unable to see that, and continue to write this twaddle thinking that they have the answers.

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  15. Latest reports from Fox claim could be a Global pandemic.

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    1. They do, as do other media outlets. Is this out of genuine concern, or readership numbers do you think?

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  16. Question.. would keeping those dietary laws have prevented this?? You will be more qualified than me to answer.

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    1. Paul, in short, the answer to that is "no", however as I'm about to travel, this will be a quick reply.
      What Christadelphians have produced here, is what they frequently do. It is a combination of "cherry picking" the Jewish laws, choosing those that look relevant (to them at least), and the "but it fits!" argument that they also love so much. It's also been sauced with a good sprinkle of what looks like racism and/or white western supremacist thoughts. They can do this because they know that they cannot lose members in China, (as they have none), and of course most Christadelphians will lap this up. Note that they have not referenced their sources either.
      It is also worth remembering that the founders of Christadelphianism believed in, and ardently practiced Phrenology- the idea that a persons character can be determined from the bumps on their skull, none of them were at the forefront of public health improvement.

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    2. Whatever health benefits those dietary laws were supposed to offer, it is noteworthy that Jesus defended his disciples when they were accused of not washing their hands and effectively recommended that others do the same (Matt 15). So much for hygiene.

      I've heard people make the argument before about Jewish dietary laws, but really all they mean is the basic fact of washing hands. But the actual laws are arbitrary, and if there was any correlation with health benefits it seems to have been by accident. The laws have nothing to do with germ theory, and in fact they include unnecessary things like washing hands after eating (why?) and also no mention of washing hands after using the toilet(!). See Deut 23:12-13. No mention of washing hands despite giving instructions on number twos.

      The Old Testament, especially the first 5 books, was mostly written around the middle of the first millennium BCE (despite what CDs claim). The Egyptians and Greeks washed regularly since before this time, and the Romans also did in their time. For most of the late Bronze age, Egypt ruled the area of Canaan and had a huge influence in that region. Let's not pretend that some village people in the Judaean hills were the first to invent hygiene. They weren't. That's not to say their laws did nothing. Any washing of germs off their hands probably did a world of good. But people figured this out in various ways in most cultures, without realising the details or why it worked.

      It wasn't until the discovery of germ theory that real progress was made in this area though, and it seems pretty weak to argue for some vague notion of God inspiring random ritual washing in the Bible, omitting other crucial details, but then leaving it up to scientists in modern times to actually understand what it was about. Come on now.

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    3. To take the law of Moses for cleanliness rules requires not just cherry-picking one section of the law of Moses, but also choosing which of the cleanliness laws to uphold (based on our modern knowledge of what is actually effective). For example, I doubt anyone today would consider using the ashes of a blemish-free red heifer with water of purification.

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  17. A tad more serious now than you are suggesting..

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    1. Paul,
      There haven't been any posts here by ex-christadelphians that have suggested that this outbreak is anything but serious.
      The "bibleinthenews" article that I quoted was simply to demonstrate the childish and vindictive attitude that is so often visible in the Christadelphian community.
      I prefer to look a real, scientific reports rather than listen to the deranged ideas of people who look to an old book for all forms of guidance, and then attempt to fit world events to that perceived agenda.

      The risk to general healthy persons below 60, remains low (but this in no way reduces the concerns we have for those of our families in more vulnerable categories)

      https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/13/how-many-will-die-of-coronavirus-in-the-uk-a-closer-look-at-the-numbers

      In the UK, there are around 6000 Christadelphians, of which around 80% are over the age of 60, which places them in the higher risk groups, regardless of underlying health conditions. They meet, and sit in close proximity at least three times a week, for well over an hour at a time, and share, mouth-to-mouth plates, bread, and drinking cups. They bring young children into the meetings in close proximity to themselves. The also hold lengthy Bible Schools, being closely together for days, and nights, on end.
      If ever there were a high risk group, it is them, since they will almost certainly ignore the "wisdom of man" on this one, as they do on other matters.
      What say you?

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    2. The debate about whether to cancel church gatherings is going on around the world in many, many denominations. I've seen numerous articles with different points of view about whether it's acceptable to do it if it's ordered by the state, or if it's to save lives, or whatever.

      A friend of mine said that they were really worried about their mother, who was still planning to attend daily mass and take communion in spite of all warnings against it. Though some dioceses are cancelling mass altogether and I think theirs might as well, which does take it out of individuals' hands.

      Funny, when you make people feel like meeting every Sunday is an important spiritual requirement, it's harder then to get them to stop doing it even if it's for good reason... One of my favourite comments about it was this:
      Somehow I think Jesus would tell them to cancel church already. After all, it was Jesus who said “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.” (Source)

      I haven't heard for sure, but I expect that Christadelphians here in Australia will continue to meet as normal unless they get forced to do something else. I hear that the Christadelphian aged people home here in Melbourne have cancelled at least some visits, which is probably a good thing. The government has recommended against gatherings over 500 people, which might affect major camps, but few if any ecclesias here would have those numbers and so they will probably ignore it. Some individual members more at risk are going into isolation, though.

      Hard to see where it will go next. I was seeing the dire projections a week or two ago, and they made sense but I'm still sorry to see them confirmed worldwide.

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    3. At time of writing, Churches in the UK, along with the Muslim council, have advised that gatherings/services/Friday prayers, etc are not a good idea, for the benefit of their communities.
      my understanding is that Christadelphians will continue to meet as normal, and, standing back, you can see that this is to be expected.
      Firstly, they would never wish to be taking external advice, or indeed doing the same as other churches/faith. A group that thinks it has the only true religion simply could not do that.
      Secondly, until an emergency law is passed, they have no need to take government advice.
      Thirdly, there is almost no possibility that anybody from outside the cult will be in attendance with them, so by meeting, any possibility of harm will be self limited to their own people.
      Fourthly, large numbers of deaths amongst the majority elderly Christadelphian membership will not be seen as any sort of disaster, it will just confirm beliefs that we are indeed in the (very) last days.

      Numerically, around 400 cult members in the UK are likely to pass as a result of the infection/age/health situation. At the risk of sounding cruel, it is all rather irrelevant to the rest of us. In recent days (weeks), their leadership have published some of the most vile devisive comments and material (written and video), trawled from cult members worldwide. They have re-emphasised their callous dismissal humanity, such as it exists in other races and cultures, and made clear their disdain for just about everybody's efforts to deal with the crisis.
      I do hope that when they have made themselves sick, that they do not burden themselves on the health services just to extend their lives by a few months until the return of Christ that they are predicting.
      The daughter of one of the leading lights of UK Christadelphia posted a couple of days ago, that they expect to be "taken" during the lockdowns, and that nobody would notice (this is an echo of similar nonsense by Jonathan Bowen about 5 years ago). This is correct. Nobody would notice, and nobody would care either. Why? Because there attitude to everybody else has saddened and sickened us deeply, and if they wish to go....they know where the door is.

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    4. Update: As of today it seems that at least some UK ecclesias have chosen to cancel all meetings for the time being:

      "CORONAVIRUS (COVID – 19) UPDATE

      Based on the latest government advice we have reluctantly decided to cancel all services and other activities at our hall until further notice. Minimising the risk to our members, families, friends and neighbours of catching the virus is our priority, so we hope you will understand why we have taken this decision.
      We are exploring different ways of keeping in touch and to support each other during these unprecedented times, including holding some of our services on-line, so check the website for updates.
      We hope and pray that God will protect you and keep you all safe and well until we can meet again"

      This statement raises all sorts of questions in the skeptic's mind. Just why is it that on this one selected occasion, they have chosen to take the government's advice? (it is not law, just advice).Why are they not giving advice from within? They are after all the only people in the entire world that understand God's plan and timetable of events. Nobody else has a clue, so why turn to the government for advice? Surely they should be looking to the Bible for advice.
      Also, If they believe that God can protect them, and keep them safe and well, outside, with all the unbelieving disease carrying riff-raff, surely he could look after them for the few hours a week inside the meeting room? Can his power not penetrate the walls of the meeting room?
      Just a lot of scared people whose bluff has been called.

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    5. I've heard that members of my own family will be attending the meeting as normal this coming Sunday, in defiance of all the official advice to avoid social contact. As this particular ecclesia has an average age of around 75 and wine and bread is shared from the same plate and cup, I fear that their numbers will soon be 'falling away' caused by their own stupidity.
      Surely this starkly illustrates the 'us and the world' attitude that they hold? I know they expect to be immortal in the near future, but I think some will discover that they aren't just yet!

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    6. Mark, you are absolutely correct.
      The quote I made is from west Birmingham Christadelphians (UK), this is a wealthy ecclesia, (at meeting times the car park looks like the import centre for expensive new German cars).
      The language used is telling, you will note that number one on their list of concerns is themselves. Their priority is given as themselves (not God's will as you might expect).Surprisingly, they need to find ways of keeping in touch with each other, and yet the phones are working, buses running, and nobody is banned from going out. It is an insight into their social structure.
      Despite all of their protestations, it is an admission that Bible reading and God is not enough to protect them.
      Christadelphians repeatedly accuse wider society of being men whose "hearts are failing them from fear". In wider society, what we are actually seeing is a coming together of people, young people taking supermarket jobs to speed up food distribution, and no signs at all of the sort of panic that would justify such words.
      Christadelphians have also stated that "...supermarket shelves decimated as the world’s wealthy stock up". Go out to the shops, and what you will see is regular people, trying their best to look after their families when they know they might see a fall in their income, and being stuck in at home, and a government and society doing it's best to regulate supply and demand.
      You can rest assured that the "them and us" isolationist attitude, and the reliance on prayer, will evaporate the very instant that one of these vile people fall sick. At that point they will expect those in that world outside to bend over backwards to treat them, so that when this is all over, they can once again crawl out of their hovels and start throwing stones again.
      Even normally cocky suffolk Christadelphians have now had their hearts fail them with fear, and gone with the advice:

      "After careful thought, Bury St Edmunds Christadelphians have suspended all public Bible talks for the duration of the Corona Virus outbreak"

      Other long term sick Christadelphians have gone into isolation to hide from this particular wonder of God's creation. They all want the kingdom as soon as possible, but not just now....

      The message is clear, God and his angels were on hand to swing the Brexit vote, but is mysteriously absent when Christadelphians need protecting from his creation. The trouble for them is that it won't just be cynical old people like me who notice, their own "young people" might just begin to wonder too.

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  18. Yeah was getting at your comment on readership numbers.

    ReplyDelete

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