tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-463445167640495548.post3321410354439257452..comments2024-03-28T19:36:15.659+00:00Comments on Ex-Christadelphians: The Brexit propheciesUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger103125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-463445167640495548.post-65139526063545083902021-07-02T19:06:02.892+01:002021-07-02T19:06:02.892+01:00Just a further amendment,and i beg forgiveness if ...Just a further amendment,and i beg forgiveness if this is making me look a little crazy. Last night I had time to kill in town, whilst one of my daughters was attending something. I did my shopping, and then wandered round to the meeting room, to address a nagging doubt as to the EXACT wording of that sign. Nowadays, I only work part time, as a delivery driver, and realised that I had passed by the meeting room in opposite directions previously. Sure enough, on checking, the sign does indeed read "Christ is coming soon!", on my second pass, this was obscured by reflections from the glass, when viewed travelling west to east, but not east to west.<br /> So, I retract my apology, and re-instate my question. Just how soon will it be? Joseph Stronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02991556264804797340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-463445167640495548.post-30603308128938287172021-06-30T12:18:53.256+01:002021-06-30T12:18:53.256+01:00Joseph, on the weekend in a park I saw a tree with...Joseph, on the weekend in a park I saw a tree with a plaque, and since I was curious what it was I stopped and read it. It said it had been planted during the Second Bahai Holy Year (1992 - 1993), and was in honour of the ascension of the prophet-founder of the Baha'i faith, and in glory of his lofty vision of unity & peace for mankind soon to be realised.<br /><br />And I thought "That's interesting, and reminds me a lot of Christadelphian things". The main difference being a mere century since the ascension rather than 2,000 years. But I'm not sure unity and peace for humanity will be "soon" now any more than it was in the 1990s. And I don't think Jesus coming one day and forcefully imposing it would really lead to the peace and happiness Christadelphians (including former-me) talked about, either.<br /><br />Mancott, I'm sure there are many stories like that, and I've certainly heard some of them. Another thing I've heard in the same vein is people being discouraged from attending university, sometimes even from finishing high school. Might work out for some, but I'm sure it will hurt the job and financial prospects of many as they get into their twenties and thirties and possibly desire (or are encouraged to) marry and start families.<br /><br />In retrospect I can see that all my study and career plans were made as if there was to be no return of Jesus in my lifetime, even though in one part of my head I probably did believe that he would return before I completed university. I don't really understand how former-me squared that circle, but am glad it laid the groundwork for me rejecting religion and living life.Jon Morganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13434834424707954610noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-463445167640495548.post-82576941569543101522021-06-30T08:19:11.148+01:002021-06-30T08:19:11.148+01:00When? In 1975 a brother reminded me that within 25...When? In 1975 a brother reminded me that within 25 years Christ would have returned. It would be before the year 2000. In 1957 A brother was asked, as he was thinking of changing jobs, what was he going to do? He replied that it didn`t matter, as Christ would be returning "at any time now".Mancottnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-463445167640495548.post-18219118993491469972021-06-29T22:21:40.337+01:002021-06-29T22:21:40.337+01:00A correction. I drove past and checked today. The ...A correction. I drove past and checked today. The scrawled addition read "Christ is coming!".<br /><br /> So I take back what I said, no timescale was implied or promised. I made a wrong and regretful assumption.<br /><br /> As I drove off down the road though, a little voice in my head said "When?" Joseph Stronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02991556264804797340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-463445167640495548.post-16542451110699787602021-06-27T03:39:26.058+01:002021-06-27T03:39:26.058+01:00Jody, that frustrated me even as a believer. I ne...Jody, that frustrated me even as a believer. I never belonged to an ecclesia that made a big deal of it*, but I knew people who did, and I checked out of that prophecy manipulation long before I checked out of the religion.<br /><br />I don't know about John Thomas, but I do know Robert Roberts expected to be still alive when Jesus returned. And he has been dead over 100 years...<br /><br />* OK, we probably still had the general feeling Jesus' return was "soon", but we didn't spend vast amounts of time studying "the Signs of the Times" or anything like that.Jon Morganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13434834424707954610noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-463445167640495548.post-35357923294015592042021-06-26T12:18:33.962+01:002021-06-26T12:18:33.962+01:00The greatest horror to me consists of my relatives...The greatest horror to me consists of my relatives who simply rework the "prophecies" to accommodate whatever is happening in the world. It smacks of desperation, delusion, and madness. Many die muttering, "I almost made it." I have an elderly and absolutely horrible relative -- horrible in every descriptive manner -- who is 87 and never stops venting about how if she is lucky, she still has a chance to see Jesus return "because it's all going to happen soon." How pitiful, to have one's life culminate in such self-centered grasping at straws. LIVE YOUR LIFE, dammit!Jody Vorheesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-463445167640495548.post-44105834833593989052021-06-25T20:55:42.334+01:002021-06-25T20:55:42.334+01:00Jody, when the UK lockdowns started, March 2020, m...Jody, when the UK lockdowns started, March 2020, my former Ecclesia cancelled meetings, and put the following on their website:<br /><br />"....postponed till further notice" (That's exactly as it was, and remains so to this day (late June, 2021), clearly done by people struggling with modern English, but of course better than 99.99999% of all others to interpret the Bible in all it's forms.<br /><br />They then posted a web address in the window, which stayed for the next 15 months, which was just to one of the normal crank websites that they promote. Last week a scrawled note appeared next to it, which said:<br /><br />"Christ is returning soon" (that may not be the exact wording, I was driving at the time). Based on the website comment, perhaps they meant "Christadelphians returning soon", who knows? What we do know is that after 15 months of no meetings, no lectures to prepare, no exortations to do, those two lines of scrawl are the sum total of their outreach efforts.<br /> Appalling as Jonestown was, it happened, and then it was over. It didn't linger on for two centuries inflicting more harm with each passing decade, as Christadelphianism does, driving it's followers to greed, fraud, adultery, alcoholism, and all the rest, whilst sanctimoniously condemning and handwaving off all criticism, or even honest examination.<br /><br />Yes, Christ will be back "soon", but don't dare ever ask "how soon"? <br /><br />Prattle? Your words are too kind by far. Sanctimonious, dishonest drivel is nearer the mark.<br />Joseph Stronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02991556264804797340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-463445167640495548.post-66906125924277615132021-06-24T04:26:33.420+01:002021-06-24T04:26:33.420+01:00"It's all happening under our noses."..."It's all happening under our noses."<br /><br />"The prophecies are being revealed as we watch."<br /><br />"Things will come to a head imminently."<br /><br />How many decades did I listen to this prattle? Sounds like the last transcripts that came out of Jonestown, Guyana.Jody Vorheesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-463445167640495548.post-36079272612288803662021-06-09T03:10:32.824+01:002021-06-09T03:10:32.824+01:00"Fables" and "lies" are the op..."Fables" and "lies" are the operative words in your post.Douglas Bridgebainnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-463445167640495548.post-69809859171041557322021-05-23T14:07:09.834+01:002021-05-23T14:07:09.834+01:00'Mark Twain' also wrote, "It (the Bib...'Mark Twain' also wrote, "It (the Bible) is full of interest. It has noble poetry in it; and some clever fables; and some blood-drenched history; and some good morals; and a wealth of obscenity; and upwards of a thousand lies".Mancottnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-463445167640495548.post-51223453831365128292021-05-22T11:58:52.264+01:002021-05-22T11:58:52.264+01:00As Mark Twain wrote, "Hatred is seldom found ...As Mark Twain wrote, "Hatred is seldom found to exist without having great inspiration."Douglas Bridgebainnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-463445167640495548.post-76844990290538169082021-05-20T10:25:11.794+01:002021-05-20T10:25:11.794+01:00Suzi mentions "nastiness" being expresse...Suzi mentions "nastiness" being expressed on this site. The physical, psychological, emotional, and sexual abuse I experienced while in CD Land much better fits that bill. It was perpetrated by "elders" who don't acknowledge it and have no intention of ever making amends for it. "Nasty" enough for you?Jody Vorheesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-463445167640495548.post-21516826146733404882021-05-17T07:38:24.015+01:002021-05-17T07:38:24.015+01:00Jon, yes, could well be satire. I'd agree that...Jon, yes, could well be satire. I'd agree that in the past, Christadelphians did stand up in public to preach (Duncan Heaster in relatively recent times).<br /> What struck me with the BITN item ( I will comment in the correct thread later), Is how it gave the appearance of Christadelphians supporting the Methodist preachers actions, but only from afar, not sufficiently to take inspiration and do likewise. Plus the irony that they would share no doctrines with him. Very crafty, wording too with that final quote, so as to allow the reader to interpret as he pleases, but also allow the writer to deny meaning whatever that reader interpreted. Very standard Christadelphian tactic. Note too, that when "Christadelphian video" publish a talk, unless it is a big "star" speaker, the identity of the speaker is always concealed. Big enough to stand up and talk, but not big enough to be counted.<br /> When my town had flower parades up until a few years ago, all the churches opened their doors to visitors to drink tea, use toilets etc and maybe buy bric a brac etc, Christadelfians kept their doors firmly closed so as not to be see as having anything in common with these other Churches. They always like for others to do the heavy lifting and then themselves to try to profit from it. Despicable.Joseph Stronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02991556264804797340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-463445167640495548.post-17677764156023957972021-05-17T04:18:55.896+01:002021-05-17T04:18:55.896+01:00Joseph, when I quickly read Suzi's comment bef...Joseph, when I quickly read Suzi's comment before approving I thought it was satire. I may have been wrong.<br /><br />If it is genuine, I have a question for Suzi: How many times do you think those same nations have made the same noises in the last 50 years and Christadelphians have claimed success? What makes this time different?<br /><br />On a different note, I think I've heard that my grandfather preached at Speakers' Corner at Hyde Park before he moved to Australia. I'm also fairly sure he wasn't the only Christadelphian of that era to do so.Jon Morganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13434834424707954610noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-463445167640495548.post-78555061049099700592021-05-16T21:41:58.241+01:002021-05-16T21:41:58.241+01:00Suzi, given how you seem to be impressed by their ...Suzi, given how you seem to be impressed by their interpretations, have you been equally impressed by other groups, or just them?<br /><br /> With such a special message to preach, I would have thought that they would have recommenced meetings by now, rather than hiding behind covid as an excuse not to.<br /><br /> Have you noticed how Bible In The news has re-published Daily Mail articles regarding the arrest and subsequent release of an independent Methodist street preacher in the UK? What are the chances of a Christadelphian even being seen in the street spreading their gospel, never mind being arrested for it? (answer-nil, they haven't even had a public lecture in over a year, never mind had a go at street preaching, the Jehovah's witnesses have been HAND WRITING letters, and posting them while they can't door knock. While I don't believe their message, at least they are making an effort and will definitely get a cup of tea and a peaceful chat next time they show up in person! 10/10 for effort, 0/10 for christadelphians.)<br /><br /> The Christadelphians- Reduced to publicly quoting the Daily Mail. What a level to stoop to.Joseph Stronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02991556264804797340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-463445167640495548.post-85559568626410427862021-05-16T14:01:46.972+01:002021-05-16T14:01:46.972+01:00Well, it seems the Christadelphians have been vind...Well, it seems the Christadelphians have been vindicated this week. I say this as a non-Christadelphian who has been following their interpretations of Bible prophecy with interest. As I type, the very same Islamic nations I have read defined by the Christadelphians as coming against Israel in the last days as holding talks and asking for greater measures against Israel. <br /><br />Seeing some of the nastiness on here towards the elderly in this church has further convinced me they are telling the truth, afterall, Jesus did say that his followers would be hated! <br /><br />Suzihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14623581825153954360noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-463445167640495548.post-78895117155347505162021-04-03T05:51:52.382+01:002021-04-03T05:51:52.382+01:00Hi Joseph, Sorry it took longer to get to than exp...Hi Joseph, Sorry it took longer to get to than expected. I've just created a discussion post. I'm happy to think about creating them more frequently, but will see how many comments the first post gets and how easy it is to keep track of.<br /><br />Personally, I'd prefer not to be involved in the discussion. I wrote a lot about Israel in my first couple of years out, then this post on Brexit, and by the end of it I just think "It's so ridiculous it's not worth my time any more". It's just such a different world, and a world I was somewhat skeptical of even while a Christadelphian. From outside it just looks delusions of self-importance and having access to hidden knowledge that no-one else has. And I understand the allure of that, but it doesn't stand up to even the most basic scrutiny and I'm over it. Enjoy the discussion, though :)Jon Morganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13434834424707954610noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-463445167640495548.post-63771944374533232502021-03-25T13:47:07.303+00:002021-03-25T13:47:07.303+00:00Hassan, I always belonged to ecclesias that had Ch...Hassan, I always belonged to ecclesias that had Christmas services (though not usually on Christmas day). The catch was that they were largely intended to be outreach events, not for us - we might talk about "the true meaning of Christmas", but our personal family dinners were more times for food and family, just like those terrible secular people around us. I also knew of people who were very much anti-Christmas. And once the Christadelphian had a terrible hit piece on Christmas that I wrote (and got published) a letter defending using Christmas for outreach. So yeah, an interesting mix. And it's because it was once a year and an event intended for the general public that I was more comfortable attending the service after I quit.<br /><br />I've also written a couple of articles on Christmas related things:<br /><a href="https://www.jonmorgan.info/religion/2017/12/24/the-true-meaning-of-christmas.html" rel="nofollow">The true meaning of Christmas</a><br /><a href="https://www.jonmorgan.info/religion/2019/12/29/the-greatest-story-and-the-greatest-gift.html" rel="nofollow">The greatest story and the greatest gift</a><br /><br />Mancott's poem is <a href="https://www.ex-christadelphians.com/2016/12/a-christmas-poem-from-our-archives.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>.Jon Morganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13434834424707954610noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-463445167640495548.post-60419716205752168492021-03-25T08:01:25.995+00:002021-03-25T08:01:25.995+00:00Hassan, somewhere on this site you will find a poe...Hassan, somewhere on this site you will find a poem about a sister who made her objections very plain about having to attend on Christmas Day. Not one UK ecclesia which I belonged to would have have allowed celebratory carols.Mancottnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-463445167640495548.post-27879402297147044162021-03-24T14:22:57.406+00:002021-03-24T14:22:57.406+00:00Wow - you had Christmas services! How things chang...Wow - you had Christmas services! How things change - probably over space as well as time. My parents were conflicted - we celebrated Christmas at home just like everyone else, thankfully, but if Christmas Day was a Sunday ? Do we go to the meeting - and risk outsiders thinking we celebrate Christmas, or do we stay at home and … celebrate Christmas. Here in the UK we still have a group that go to a youth hostel to get away from it and study dry bones : http://northernwinterstudy.com/info/ . Their rules are great - I think the one that says 'Please do not bring anything that is likely to be annoying to anyone else' is code for 'nothing Christmassy' but I don't actually know.Hassannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-463445167640495548.post-50677730271400930502021-03-19T11:39:19.571+00:002021-03-19T11:39:19.571+00:00Hassan, It appears that this week's BITN was w...Hassan, It appears that this week's BITN was written by a Canadian, with access to only far left publication/online content, and little "boots on the ground" idea of the complex situation. This is betrayed by the strange idea that the British army "backed" the north, which to a native UK residence is a very strange way to describe the situation. He doesn't seem to have a grip on just how many of us in the UK have mixed Irish ancestry (myself included, I have enough to claim an Irish passport should I so desire).<br /> The writers of BITN are doing themselves no favours, however it would be nice if Jon were to consider a twice monthly article header for us to discuss/comment on BITN for that period, with the (relatively) low number of articles (not a complaint-I know how much work it can be!), It is difficult to keep discussion on thread.Joseph Stronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02991556264804797340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-463445167640495548.post-27608245039380937992021-03-18T12:43:44.516+00:002021-03-18T12:43:44.516+00:00BITN has addressed my question posed above about w...BITN has addressed my question posed above about why isn't Ireland a young lion. Totally appalling piece of re-writing history. Last weeks was even more cranky - The Bible teaches that mankind is naturally evil and sinful...The governments of this world are a collection of individuals who are of the flesh. Therefore the governments of this world are corrupt and the politics of this world are corrupt. A true follower of Christ will not be involved in politics... Well you could argue that about absolutely anything, even Christadelphian Churches themselves for that matter.Hassannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-463445167640495548.post-79741256262934750962021-03-16T14:42:28.138+00:002021-03-16T14:42:28.138+00:00A week on I don't know we should expect to hea...A week on I don't know we should expect to hear more from Joshua David. I'd agree with Thom: I don't have any reason to believe in any god, and thus atheist is one label I choose to adopt (it's certainly not the only one).<br /><br />However, if by "ATHEIST" you mean the kind of unbeliever I was taught to fear as a Christadelphian - someone who without God had no moral foundation and could commit atrocities at the drop of a hat - then no, I'm not that kind of atheist, and nor are the many ex-Christians I've come to know after leaving religion. In fact, my experience is that we can have a better moral sense when we don't have to justify the atrocities of an all-powerful God (Divine Command Theory, for example), and can focus on actual harm to individuals rather than which "sins" supposedly upset a God we have no reason to believe in.<br /><br />Joseph, I went to the Christmas services of my former ecclesia for a few years after quitting - I like some of the carols, and it gave an opportunity to catch up with people I hadn't seen for a while. Then they seemed to stop running them, and I'm not sure why.Jon Morganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13434834424707954610noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-463445167640495548.post-43833797390452033252021-03-12T09:24:12.893+00:002021-03-12T09:24:12.893+00:00I can respect this. There is a certain familiarity...I can respect this. There is a certain familiarity with some of the cultural elements that can feel really good in terms of connecting you with others and just being part of a greater movement that just wants to help people and make the world a little better. Meanwhile I think this element is largely missing from many Christadelphian communities.Thom Jonashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18186346329746839487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-463445167640495548.post-27173508205067078022021-03-12T09:13:51.183+00:002021-03-12T09:13:51.183+00:00I've spoken with a Christadelphian just reacen...I've spoken with a Christadelphian just reacently actually and he agreed that many are just there due to having been raised in it, and having friends in the religion. It's social before doctrine. I'd say in a majority of cases that's true actually. That doesn't mean they don't "believe" - no doubt they do. But they might not be nearly so dogmatic on a whole range of issues compared to the more hard-line members.<br /><br />I don't really fault anyone for wanting to keep their social networks (the original kind, the offline ones) intact and staying in the religion for those benefits. If they can do it, and it works for them, then by all means. The problem is when people are there against their will, or when they haven't been offered the life experience or opportunities to even know what they've given up, or to make an actual informed decision about their life.Thom Jonashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18186346329746839487noreply@blogger.com