Gittin' Unscrewed

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☼                        In Memory of Becky Rush                          ☼
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Gittin' Unscrewed
By Becky
My top ten teachings of the Worldwide Church of God
that have screwed up my thinking.

1.  That "GAWD" wants me to get down on my knees, grovel a bit, and beg! his mightiness for my daily food, shelter and safety.
 
I didn't ask him/her to be born...and if there IS a god, why the hell WOULDN'T it take care of my basic needs???  What kind of sicko mind requires that of its' creatures???  I don't require it of my beloved fur-friends...  And how can I hold my head up when I am told that I DON'T receive the things I need because I either didn't ask, ask properly, or because I need to learn some sort of lesson?


2.  That I am "Peculiar" and "Chosen" by the Almighty. 

Wow...doesn't that one make me feel "special!"  HA!  Yup.  I'm SOOOoo much better than everyone around me...right.  Hey, if I'm so special, then how's come I gotta grovel???

3.  Perhaps the most cruel one of all..."The heart is deceitful...(so much so that you can be fooled and not even know it!)..." 

The way they taught this made me doubt and mistrust even myself!  The very one I need to listen to, ME, is the one I'm told I cannot trust!  Well...then who AM I supposed to trust?  Them?  Gawd, thru them?  Or nobody?  This one has impaired my thinking more than I can say...it has affected every aspect of my life, making it difficult to get close to people, have friends and relationships...it has broken up beautiful loves and caused deep pain.  How DARE THEY!  How dare whoever? wrote that horrid book, the bible!!  Perhaps there IS some truth in being careful and questioning ones motives...but Worldwide Church of God used what could have been a GOOD tool to indoctrinate us into confusion and misguided loyalty to THEM!
Just because I'm away from that influence doesn't mean it no longer impacts my life.  This scripture STILL comes to mind...at unwanted times, and causes trouble.  Working on stopping the recordings in my head...but it's hard!!!

4.   "Gawd" will only give you what you can bear. 

Oh brother.  Sounds like the saying, "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger."  Well, duh, yeah, I guess so!
But are you whole after going thru something terrible?  Aren't you CHANGED in a fundamental way?  Aren't you "weaker" than you were?  If I cut my arm with a knife every day, over and over, wouldn't I be scarred?  Is a scar "strong?"  Or is it just a scar...indicator of trauma!  Who wants to be scarred for life?!  Not me, though I don't see how I can avoid it, completely.  But the Worldwide Church of God seemed to believe that these "scars" are badges of honor!  Yikes. 


5.  You will be a KING in the NEW WORLD TOMORROW!  You will RULE over those "unwashed" millions...   

Thought there would be NO gender differences in the brave new world..?  And how can I become a "ruler" when I can't even trust myself??  What trash.  Used to make me feel important...and hopeful...and eager for the new world order.  Thought I'd finally be able to make some progress and change, as one of Gawd's elect and with his blessings...a little mini-god...HA!  But it didn't do much for my everyday life here.. uh uh.  Just a wantabe...

6.  You will probably have to up and leave everything and everyone behind when it comes time to run to safety...and those left will probably have to suffer terribly from what is coming... 

Now gee...that sure makes me want to take off to Petra, doesn't it you?  Yeah...leave kids, husband, pets, parents...whatever...to struggle thru something worse than has ever happened to anyone!  While I sit and bask in the glow of Herbert W. Armstrong and his henchmen...waiting for the glorious return and final battles...holy cow!  What a story line...  Used to cry myself to sleep with worry over my hubby and parents and sister...and I did a lot of groveling to the ceiling in the hopes that, by my hard work and near-perfection, they might be spared this.  What a heavy burden.

7.   The "Yellow" race is mean, heartless and cruel.  The "Red" race is shallow, spineless and lazy.  The "Black" race is shiftless, lazy, horny and uneducateable. Don't marry them...don't even have them for friends! 

Ok...talk about stereotyping!  That I've known "white" people to hold all of these traits...guess it doesn't mean anything, huh?  But you know? To this day, these thoughts spring forth when I meet a new patient or person on the street...just for a nanosecond, yes, but there nonetheless.  I shove it back down...hard!  And force myself to keep an open mind...but it bothers me that it even surfaces at all!  Before the Worldwide Church of God, I believe I was as unprejudiced as a person can be.  Came from a family who didn't have these ideas...but thanks to Worldwide Church of God, I learned them.  They made some sort of sense at the time...but only because I wanted them to.

8.   "Gawd" is so far above us...like we are above monkeys...that you cannot understand his perfect mind.   

Hmmm...    now there's a sure way to keep me in my place!  Yup...just another little monkey...monkey see/hear...monkey do.  Don't think, just shut yer trap and listen!!  You're too dumb to understand the deeper things...so let us (ministers) do your thinking for you and we'll tell you what to think-say-do.  Good recipe for fostering idiocy...  To this day, I will acquiesce to someone in authority...until I realize they may not be the sharpest tool in the shed...then I turn on the ole brain and figure things out for myself.  But, it still causes problems...

9.   Emotion, especially as they show in those horrid Pentecostal churches, is not Gawd's way...don't let emotion have a place in your life!  Stifle it!   

I remember being told by McCrady that you need to place your emotions in a box, put the box on a shelf in a closet, and lock the door.  (Speaking figuratively)
My question?  If I'm not supposed to embrace my emotions, why do I have them?
This one has done a lot of damage...it has caused me to "stuff" a lot of things I should have experienced and dealt with.  And helped me to turn off my feelings towards others, sometimes with terrible consequences.  Sigh.  What a wonderful thing, our emotions.  Should they be controlled? Well, of course, especially those that could do harm!  But turn them off???  Some might say that isn't even possible, but I am proof that it is.  Rigid and inflexible control is needed...takes a lot of strength and energy...but it can be done.  But the results aren't pretty.


10.   The world's problems are caused by sin, which entered the picture in the early part of the garden story.  Satan wasn't able to fool the man...but he WAS able to fool the woman.  She is, therefore, the weaker vessel.. mentally. 

Oh, bullshit. Horse hockey.  Give me a break.  Couldn't there be different spins put on this sordid little tale?  But, wait...ah...this is JUST the thing we might need to keep the little ladies in their place!  Yes!!!  It might just work!  (smiling madly and rubbing hands together...)  Yes. it did work.  As a "Christian" country, we've done our part to keep women in their place. at least according to the religious community.  Again, this has had an impact on my life.  Besides #3, this one has caused the most grief for me.  I thought I had to find the man the minister deemed good enough (whatever that was) and then take my place behind him...and stifle my own dreams, creativity, emotions...and be a helper to his higher agenda.  What a crock.  Does someone need to be "in charge" in a relationship?  In charge of what?  Of the other person??  Of their finances??  Of their very way of life??  Gee...I don't know, but wouldn't a collaboration make more sense?  Why does one person need to be in control?  Because they are afraid?

Well...I guess I could come up with more...and I may! :)  But I guess I got it out of my system, for awhile.  These things are hard to get rid of and I hate it that they are still with me...I believed this crap sooo deeply...and am ashamed now that I did.  But, at least I don't anymore...sigh.

Well, what do you think?  Bunch o' crap, huh?

Gittin unscrewed....Becky
copyright © 1997-2003 by The Painful Truth. All rights reserved.

Why People Become Christadelphians

Christadelphians singing praise to a God that
only exists inside their own minds
The overwhelming majority of Christadelphians are converted because they are born into a Christadelphian family and they adopt the faith of their parents.

Generally speaking most children accept the family religion. Catholics beget more Catholics, Protestants beget more Protestants, Muslims beget more Muslims and Christadelphians beget more Christadelphians. So on it goes, around the globe in all religions.

Young minds are naturally attracted to adopt the beliefs and ways of their parents. To do so bestows an evolutionary advantage and that is why this behaviour is born and bred into us all. Since the time that Homo Sapiens first left Africa, survival critically depended on families and clans remaining together and not being dispersed. Families that split up would soon be lost to posterity and their genes not passed on.

The children of Christadelphian parents who follow their parents into the family religion are not displaying "faith", they are obeying the instructions coded into their genes and adopting the mindset and beliefs of their parents.

Adolescents think that they are rebelling against the authority of their parents, but in reality they are following in their parent’s footsteps. Tell any Catholic, Protestant, Muslim or Christadelphian that the primary reason that they maintain their affiliation is because of childhood conditioning and they will reply that you are mistaken. They will claim that they hold their conviction because of the authority of the Papacy, or that they object to the authority of the papacy, or the prophet was inspired by Allah, or that Dr Thomas rediscovered the Truth. However the end result is that religious affiliation is not so much a matter of faith and conviction, but rather it is a result of a genetic lottery.

The majority of humans are born into their religion. That is how it has been since the beginning of history. Every religious person claims a personal conviction and maintains that they have thought it out for themselves and formed their own independent opinion by vigorously examining their own beliefs. But the reality is that the “churn” of people switching between, or abandoning belief systems is very small. Childhood conditioning has created a powerful cognitive bias in their minds towards a certain religion that is almost impossible for them to overcome.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with "faith". It is like an addiction to crack cocaine or nicotine that cannot be broken. The great majority of Christadelphian offspring will be baptised. Childhood conditioning has "hooked" them and they are unable to escape from the family religion. The religion is actually a nonsense, but to the infant mind it all makes perfect sense to believe what they are taught by their parents. As their minds mature the imprint of that conditioning becomes stronger, not weaker.

It is not just the Christadelphians, all childhood religious imprinting works the same way. "Give me a child until he is five and I will give you a Catholic for life" is the Jesuit pledge. I was a Christadelphian child until I was fifteen and it took another twenty wasted years before I could shake my mind free. I was lucky to escape.

Tens of thousands of Christadelphians are still trapped in the Christadelphian belief system convinced that they are there because of the exercise of their own free will and intelligently considering the facts. But they are wrong. They are like North Korean children praising "The Dear Leader" because that is what they learned from their parents. It is NOT faith - it is an invisible, mental, genetic trap.


Christadelphians are increasingly
anti-science
Because the walls of the trap are invisible they cannot escape because they do not see the walls of the trap and they think themselves to be free. But they are not free. They are held in a matrix that has an overwhelming power to fool their minds into thinking that a nonsensical religion, completely lacking in rational evidence, is "The Truth" when in reality it is a fantasy.

Is it God's purpose in the "Latter Days" to confer salvation only on the descendents of a tiny number of families primarily in the Anglo-Saxon English speaking area of the world? The Bible certainly does not predict such a bizarre outcome. So why has it worked out that way for the Christadelphians?

It has worked out that way because a minor Nineteenth Century American revivalist sect has survived into the Twenty First Century by being handed down through families that have shut their minds to the realities of what is going on in the outside world.

The Amish and other sects have survived for exactly the same reason. It has nothing to do with faith, or God, or the Bible, or anything at all supernatural or divine. John Thomas's beliefs have been preserved in families who are unknowingly obeying their genetic instructions to preserve the family religion.

Those same genes were bred into their ancestors in Africa hundreds of thousands of years ago as a way to strengthen families and the clan in order to improve the chances of survival in a hostile world. It's not Christadelphianism that is in their genes; it is the preservation of family ways that is in their genes.

If they had been born Amish or Mormon they would be Amish or Mormons instead of Christadelphians. It is not "faith" or divine providence, it is a refusal to let go of the past and use the mind productively. It is the natural human tendency to take the easy option and avoid facing hard realities. Christadelphianism is not a collection of God's saints; it is an ostrich with its head buried deep in the sands of time.

Therefore I observe a disturbing principle operating: The world is populated by billions of humans who are following thousands of different and exclusive religions into which they have been born by a mindless genetic lottery.

They are all convinced that they have thought it out for themselves and that everyone else in all of the other religions is wrong. You could argue that most of them go along with the family religion because it is the easy option. But, challenge the faith of any of these people and you will be surprised at the vigour with which they defend their position.

Because the great majority remain in the beliefs into which they have been born, it must be obvious that, re-examining those beliefs rigorously when of a more mature age, is not the determining factor in establishing faith or conviction. Instead it appears to me that childhood conditioning is the causal factor. “But I re-examined my beliefs rigorously” a believer will claim. My rejoinder is: “Yes - that’s what they all say!” "Re-examining beliefs rigorously” almost always results in the subject reinforcing his previously held belief in the family religion and often makes him into a stronger adherent and promoter of the family faith.

That is what happened to me. I know because "I've been there and done that". I was as misguided as the Christadelphians who remain in the religion now. I am not smarter than them because I left; I was just extremely fortunate that things worked out for me the way that they did. They are unfortunate because they did not get the break that I did.

Why People Join Religions

A minority of people join a new faith which is not the family religion. A small number of people convert to the Christadelphian religion when it is not their family religion. However when you investigate the real reason why they converted it usually falls into one of the following categories:

1. They marry INTO the faith. Therefore romance or sex is the inspiration for their conversion, not intellectual conviction. If challenged they will deny this. But as it is a world-wide, faith-wide phenomenon it is quite obvious that the desire for sex and romance preceded their declaration of "faith" in the new religion, or in Christadelphianism. One Christian sect "Hookers for Jesus" recognizes the power of this basic human instinct and uses sex as the primary method of conversion. Sure, it can result in conversion, but it can hardly be called "faith". The mind has been tricked into believing something because of a greater payoff. The payoff is a partner, not life after death. The brain knows that a partner in this life is worth far more than the illusion of life after death for which evidence is totally absent.

2. They join the faith because they are expecting material reward. You only have to observe the Christadelphian "conversions" in Eastern Europe and Russia etc to see this happening. In the process of time the Christadelphian religion might eventually transform into some sort of social welfare organization rather than a religion and that would be no bad thing. But converts rising from the waters of baptism with hands held out for welfare makes a mockery of the faith. Bribery is NOT conversion.

3. They join the faith because they desire social acceptance and fraternity. I have seen this happen on several occasions during my time in the Christadelphians. One of the people that I "converted" joined for that reason. I could have told him that we were aliens from another planet for all he cared. He was just lonely and we were the answer to his problem. He died in the faith and we gave him a good send-off. But we did not send him to God's Kingdom. We sent him to the grave and that is where he will remain for all eternity, along with all the other Christadelphians and all the members of every religion that has ever been or that ever will be. It was all an empty sham except for the fact that he did find some friends in his declining years. That was the only good that came of the whole thing. If people want to join the Christadelphians to make friends then I'm all for it; but let's not kid ourselves that faith has got anything to do with it.

The reality is that it is extremely difficult to get anyone at all to join the Christadelphian religion for the biblical reason - that they have been converted by the power of the Holy Spirit operating through the Word of God. You know from your own experience and I know from mine that Christadelphian preaching is a thankless task. It is extremely rare that you ever convert anyone at all unless it is for one of the reasons given above and those reasons are NOT biblical conversion; they are decisions arrived at as a result of faulty cognitive bias or pressure.

Christadelphians stay in their religion because the faith acts as a network of social involvement and support. To leave the religion means to be judged and ostracised by one's relatives and peers and no one wants that to happen. Being a member of a group that believes irrational things makes those beliefs seem somehow normal. You look at all the other "normal" people in the group who believe what you believe and it reassures your mind that your beliefs are socially accepted because everyone else in the group thinks the same way. But the problem with that arrangement is that what is actually happening is that each member of the group is reinforcing the paranoia of everyone else.

It's a bit like the story of the emperor who rode through the streets naked. The crowd saw nothing wrong with the spectacle and were held in a collective delusion with each member of the crowd reinforcing the mistaken belief of the others. Only when an outsider cried out that the emperor was naked did the illusion vanish and the individual members of the group realise that they had been foolish.

An individual who thought that he could gain eternal life, murder unbelievers and help rule the world for a thousand years would be diagnosed as being seriously paranoid and prescribed sedating medication; they might even be restrained under a mental health order. But when such an individual is a member of a fifty thousand strong group like the Christadelphians, who all think the same way, the rational constraints of secular society no longer act to balance the person's thinking to a healthy psychological frame of mind.

Indeed, society itself tends to ring-fence such madness, labels it as a "Faith" and accords a level of respect to such a faith. It is only when a "Faith" begin to stockpile weapons, or release sarin gas on Japanese subways, or marry off underage girls to old men, or shoot a US Congressman, or fly planes into skyscrapers that society decides that the "Faith" has crossed the line between religious fantasy and reality and the leaders of the "Faith" are thrown into jail.

"Faiths" are tolerated by society just so long as the faith does not turn into reality. Christadelphians don't turn their faith into reality. They just keep patiently waiting for a return of Christ that will never happen. Society tolerates them, they reinforce each other's delusion, their children propagate the myth to the following generation and so it goes on.

It keeps going on because the faith and reality are not allowed to bump into each other. As long as the Jews hang on to a slither of Palestine the Christadelphians will forget that J Thomas told them that Christ would return in the middle of the Nineteenth Century one hundred and sixty years ago and they will keep hoping that the impossible will happen and that they will hit the jackpot when the overdue Christ makes his appearance. If Iran drops a few nuclear weapons onto Israel, or if the Israelis make a genuine peace with the Palestinians, faith will crash into reality for the Christadelphians and the bottom will drop out of the religion. Only a few die-hards will remain and the passage of time will finish them off.

Christadelphians believe in and defend their religion because of faulty cognitive bias. All the other believers in religions are similarly deceived. The fact that all the different religions claim that they hold the exclusive truth and that everyone else is mistaken is powerful evidence that they are all mistaken. The same forces for conversion operate in all religions and no less in Christadelphianism. People are born into the religion, or they marry into it, or they join in the expectation of reward, or they are lonely and desire social support. Like homeopathy, voodoo, astrology, clairvoyance, spiritualism, witchcraft, alien abduction, crop circles, water divining, flat Earth theory and similar delusions it is misguided, superstitious, naïve, dysfunctional thinking. It has nothing whatsoever to do with a “God”; it is a manifestation of human frailty making a mistake.

Leaving the Christadelphians

The good news is that leaving the Christadelphians is easier then ever before. Thousands of Ex-Christadelphians have successfully escaped from the sect and established successful and satisfying lives in the “normal” world outside the religion. People seem to be leaving the Christadelphians faster than at any time in its history.

The Internet provides a very effective method of providing support and encouragement to leavers and you can be assured of tremendous help from us if you have the courage to cleanse your mind from the poison of distorted Christadelphian thinking.

Like us, you will find the social upheaval of leaving to be upsetting because your previous Christadelphian friends will almost certainly reproach and reject you for your bravery in rejecting their dogma. Like us, you will feel the shame and guilt that you once believed crazy things. But we ex-Christadelphians are a thousand times stronger than the people that we have left behind because at last we are thinking rationally.

Intelligent, sensible human reasoning has been the driving force of human progress throughout all of history and that same force is now operating to bring an end to Christadelphian dogma, doctrine and the whole ridiculous eschatology. I implore you to open your eyes and realise that what the Christadelphians call “The Truth” is actually a ragbag of lies and paranoid thinking. Your road to discovering truth must commence by walking down a path that is called disbelief. If you have the nerve to undertake that journey you will free your mind from Christadelphian captivity and, like us, you will pity the poor souls who remain, waiting for a Kingdom that throughout the ages of eternity - is never going to happen.

The Superiority of Christianity

Please come in, dear Madam and Sir

May I show you our wares we have available here in Ye Olde Religion Shoppe?


Our main display shows Christianity, on special today for the not too discerning customer. See how popular it is. See how it solves all existential problems with one fell swoop. With absolutely no capital outlay on our side we offer you, in writing, a guaranteed happy afterlife, and an absolute written guarantee that you will never enter the eternal burning hell. How can you argue with these things? Can we really say these things are not true? Is it not better to rather be safe than sorry, so very sorry - for ever? And you have to admit, the very thought of smugly looking at those heathen sinners over in hell for the rest of eternity does have a certain attraction. Serves them so right for laughing at you.

And, while Christianity offers (of course) the ever-present Omni-God, like our Islamic and Judaism ranges, Christianity offers so much more. Here, if you accept the offer within the next hour, you also get ...... are you ready for this ..... Jesus !! Your very own friend, whom you will have a personal relationship with. Feeling lost, sad, scared .... your troubles are over, because Jesus loves you. He is always with you, and you can chat with him at all times. He understands you, not like those other bastards. Choose from our wide variety of Jesuses - like Sven Jesus, the blue-eyed Caucasian Jesus, Buddy Jesus, Hero Jesus, Crack-Whore Jesus, Biker Jesus, Political Jesus, Environmental Jesus and so many more. In fact, why don't you create your very own, with our Biblical Interpretation Kit?

And the chances of you not finding a tailor-made Christianity just for someone as special as you - nil, I tell you, nil. We have over 40,000 versions available in stock, with more arriving any time (ask about our brand new African Christian Ancestor Worship Special). But, let me assure you, if it should happen that somehow you are not happy with our range we can design your very own brand right here and now. For a small extra fee you even get to call yourself Pastor X.

We have over 2 billion customers, all willing to attest to the sheer wonderful experience that is Christianity. It just has to be true. Put an end to all life's pesky questions on science, morality, decisions, responsibility and stop fearing anything at all. Why think, why wonder, why bother with "I don't know" when you can have all that wonderful, unquestioning Christian Certainty. Answers, my friend, Answers, we have them all. Who made us, where do we come from, where are we going  - easy.

Buddhism - too hard, Islam - all those prayers, Judaism - oy, so many rules. Ah Christianity - all the answers, all the salvation, all the time. Just give your heart to Jesus, say I'm sorry and accept that you are a sinner and dirtier than filthy rags. Christianity also provides endless opportunities to bully and manipulate other people - especially the young ones. This makes it a remarkably good religion for the parent or teacher.

So, shall I ring one up for you?

Why Dr John Thomas Was Wrong

"Here and there throughout American society you meet men filled with an enthusiastic, almost fierce spirituality such as cannot be found in Europe. From time to time strange sects arise which strive to open extraordinary roads to eternal happiness. Forms of religious madness are very common there" - Alexis de Tocqueville


Dr John Thomas
1805-1871
As a child nurtured in the Christadelphian faith from my mother's womb my infant mind was steeped in Christadelphian myth and legend from an early age. My father would tell me the bedtime story of how the founder of Christadelphianism, the brave Dr John Thomas at the age of twenty eight in 1832 was nearly shipwrecked aboard the Marquis of Wellesley ship while en route to America. He made a vow to God that if his life was spared he would devote himself to discovering the truth about religion. God saved the good doctor from his distress and upon reaching New York he set about reading his Bible. He soon discovered The Truth that humans had lost for nineteen hundred years and published his findings in his book "Elpis Israel" in which he also predicted the return of the Jews to Palestine. He later explained every word and phrase of the Biblical book of Revelation in intricate detail in his three volume work "Eureka". Dr Thomas was a man "raised up by God for this great work" I was told and my young, impressionable mind believed every word, not realising that I was being indoctrinated into a religion that made about as much sense as Flat Earth Theory. I read “Elpis Israel”, “Eureka”, “Faith in the Last Days”, “Exposition of Daniel” and “Christendom Astray” when I was eleven and I made up my mind that baptism was a primary goal in my life.

It was twenty years later that my dearly beloved and greatly missed friend, brother John Allfree gave me a very old copy of the five volume work "Horae Apocaliptica" by a writer named Eliot. It is a preterist exposition of the Biblical book of Revelation. The book was published prior to Dr Thomas's work Eureka. In Eureka Dr Thomas frequently heaps fiery scorn and derision on Elliot and his work, so I was interested to read this work that I thought would be junk. Imagine therefore my shock when I discovered that practically 80% of Eureka had been lifted out of Hoare Apocaliptica! Eureka was NOT an original work at all; Dr Thomas had plagiarised Elliot's work mercilessly and passed it off to the Christadelphians as an original.

Further investigation convinced me that much of "Elpis Israel", "Anatolia", "The Exposition of Daniel" and practically everything else that Dr Thomas wrote had been taken from other writer's work but not acknowledged by him. Even most of the doctrinal material and the prediction that the Jews would return to Palestine was NOT original work. He was simply lashing together other people's material and publishing it as his own ideas. The man that I had venerated as someone "raised up by God" to rediscover The Truth was a charlatan as bad as any corrupt American TV evangelist in our own times.

It would take me many hundreds of pages to thoroughly expose Dr Thomas's plagiarism in full and as I have disposed of all my religious books it is now an impossible task for me. But I strongly recommend that others take up the task of repeating the work that I undertook in the early Nineteen Eighties. I would have written it all down then, but I got so far and gave up in disgust that I had been hoodwinked by Dr Thomas for so long. However it would be unfair to leave this subject without at least one illustration of what I mean, so I submit the following as a tiny fraction of the material that is available.

"Anatolia is original throughout" wrote Doctor Thomas in the introduction to that work. Let us test that statement by comparing the following quotations from "Anatolia" with another work published forty years earlier in 1814 by Granville Penn entitled "The Prophecy of Ezekiel concerning Gog":

Dr John Thomas in "Anatolia":
"The question as to what nations are signified by Rosh, Meshekh, and Thuval has long since been determined by the learned. The celebrated Bochart, about the year 1640 observed in his elaborate researches into sacred geography, that ROS, Ros, [the Hebrew word is omitted] is the most ancient form under which history makes mention of the name of RUSSIA; and he contended that Rosh and Meshekh probably denote the nations of Muscovy and Russia. 'It is credible,' says he, 'that from Rosh and Meshekh (that is the Rhossi and Moschi) of whom Ezekiel speaks, descended the Russians and Muscovites, nations of the greatest celebrity in European-Scythia.' We have indeed ample and positive testimony that the Russian nation was called Ros by the Greeks in the earliest period in which we find it mentioned, as Ethnos de oi Ros Schnthichon, peri ton archtoon Towron; that is, the Rosh are a Scythian nation bordering on the northern Taurus! and their own historians say, 'It is related that the Russians (whom the Greeks call Ros, and sometimes Rosos, Rosos) derived their name from Ros, a valiant man who delivered his nation from the yoke of its tyrants.'" p. 65

Granville Penn in "The Prophecy of Ezekiel Concerning Gog":
"If we next enquire what nations are signified by those three proper names we shall find that this question also has been long determined by the learned. The celebrated Bochart, about the year 1640, observed in his elaborate researches into sacred geography that ROS, Ros, is the most ancient form under which history makes mention of the name of RUSSIA; and he contended that the two first of those names properly denote the nations of Russia and Muscovy. 'It is credible,' says he, 'that from Rosh and Mesech (that is the Rhossi and Moschi) of whom Ezekiel speaks, descended the Russians and Muscovites, nations of the greatest celebrity in European-Scythia.' We have indeed ample and positive testimony that the Russian nation was called Ros by the Greeks in the earliest period in which we find it mentioned. Ethnos de oi Ros Schnthichon, peri ton archtoon Towron. 'The Ros are a Scythian nation bordering on the northern Taurus.' This testimony is given by Cedrenus, Zonarus, Leo Grammaticus, and Tzetzes; and their own historians thus report, 'It is related that the Russians (whom the Greeks call Ros, ROS, and sometimes Rosos, Rosos) derived their name from Ros, a valiant man who delivered his nation from the yoke of their tyrants.'" p. 19

John Thomas:
"And thus the three denominations, Rosh, Meshekh, and Thuval, united in the prophecy point out, with equal capacity and conciseness, those widely extended regions, which, at the present day, we denominate collectively THE RUSSIAN EMPIRE." p. 66

Granville Penn:
"And thus the THREE DENOMINATIONS united in the prophecy point out, with equal capacity and conciseness, those widely extended regions, which, at the present day, we denominate collectively THE RUSSIAN EMPIRE." p. 22

John Thomas:
"Since the name of Scythae, or Magog, is to be considered not by itself, but in geographical connection with Galatae, or Gomer, we have only to enquire, whether any geographical affinity is really ascribed by the Greeks to the Scythae and Galatae? and to ascertain to what regions of the earth those names so associated, were applied. If we can discover these two points we ought thereby to have discovered specifically the Magog of the prophecy, which is to be associated with the region, or people, of Gomer." - p. 67

Granville Penn:
"But, since the name of Scythae (i.e. Magog,) is here to be considered, not by itself, but in geographical connection with GALATAE, or GOMER, we have only to enquire, whether any geographical affinity is really ascribed by the Greeks to the Scythae and Galatae? and to ascertain, to what regions of the earth, those names, so associated, were applied. If we can discover these two points, we ought thereby to have discovered specifically the Magogue of the prophecy, which would be able to associate to themselves the region, or people of Gomer." - p. 41.

John Thomas:
"From the Hebrew Scripture we learn that Magog and Gomer were the names of two of the sons of Japhet; and it is to ancient Hebrew authority alone that we can resort to ascertain where, according to the common repute of the Israelites, the nation which descended from those two heads of families, and which long retained the proper names of those heads, were spread and established. Josephus says, 'That Japhet, etc., etc.' [and so on, with a quotation from Josephus, the same as given by G. Penn.] It only therefore remains for us to ascertain which were the nations that the Greeks at the time of Josephus called Scythae, and which they then called Galatae; and to observe whether the geographical affinities of these nations are such as answer to those which are plainly required by the prophecy for Magog and Gomer."

Granville Penn:"We know from the Hebrew Scriptures that these are the names of two sons of Japhet! and it is to ancient Hebrew authority alone that we can resort, to learn where, according to the common repute of the Hebrew people, the nations which descended from those two heads of families, and which long retained the proper names of those heads, were spread and established. Josephus is the earliest Hebrew authority of weight and learning, to which we can address ourselves; and he distinctly informs us, 'That Japhet, etc., etc. [The quotation following being ANATOLIA] Scythae and which they styled Galatae; and to observe whether the geographical affinities of these nations are such as answer to those which are plainly required by the prophecy of Magog and Gomer."

Does that look as if "Anatolia" is "original throughout" as Dr Thomas claimed? I leave you to judge for yourself. Much of the "Anatolia" material was also lifted from "Dissertations on the Prophecies" by Bishop Thomas Newton. For example the paraphrase of Daniel 11 found in Anatolia is very similar to a paraphrase of the same chapter in Newton's work.

Christadelphian brother Alan Eyre has published two excellent books exposing the lie that Dr Thomas "rediscovered The Truth" about Bible teaching. For example in the preface to "The Protestors" one time editor of the Christadelphian magazine brother FT Pearce wrote:
"It is a matter of great encouragement to us, whose religious views are regarded as unorthodox by our contemporaries, to find that in a number of cases where major doctrines are concerned, these early believers had come to the same conclusions as ourselves." In his Introduction to the same work brother Alan wrote: "The writer, once naively and unquestioningly accepting a popular view that Dr. John Thomas "discovered", as if from a void, the totality of Bible truth as believed by Christadelphians, was amazed to discover source after source which showed that this was at least a serious misrepresentation"....... "The nineteenth century, however, was one in which few intellectual debts were acknowledged."

So not only do we find that the founder of Christadelphianism stole his ideas about prophetic interpretation from previous writers, but it is evident that his "rediscovery of The Truth" is "at least a serious misrepresentation" as brother Eyre diplomatically words it.

It is simply not true that Dr Thomas arrived in America in 1832 and fulfilled his pledge to God made on the sinking Marquis of Wellesley and rediscovered The Truth by studying his Bible. What actually happened was that he arrived as a young man twenty eight years of age and threw himself with vigour into the American "Restorationism" movement. Wikipedia explains it thus:

"In the United States, Restorationism, sometimes called Christian primitivism, refers to the belief held by various religious movements that pristine or original Christianity should be restored, while usually claiming to be the source of that restoration. Such groups teach that this is necessary because Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant Christians introduced defects into Christian faith and practice, or have lost a vital element of genuine Christianity. Specifically, restorationism applies to the Restoration Movement and numerous other movements that originated in the eastern United States and Canada and grew rapidly in the early and mid 19th century."

Soon after his arrival in America Dr Thomas joined the Stone-Campbell Restoration Movement which was one of the most prominent of dozens of different sects all competing to "rediscover The Truth" at that time. They advocated a total return to the faith of the apostolic churches, as found in the New Testament. They took no denominational title, calling themselves only by Scripture names, such as "Disciples", "Brethren", (now you know why you Christadelphians call each other "brethren and sisters) and "Christians". Mr. Thomas Campbell and his son Alexander were prominent advocates of this restoration of apostolic ways. Another leading member of that group was Mr. Walter Scott, whose acquaintance Dr. Thomas made soon after his arrival, the result being that he was baptized by Mr. Scott in 1837. Dr Thomas wrote to Alexander Campbell of his baptism:
"I am a Christian, and glory in the name, and am jealous of the honours and privileges and immunities attached to it; so much so that I am not content to share them with the innumerable pretenders to the title in the Protestant and Papal sections of the kingdom of anti-Christ. Bro. W. Scott can testify that I believed the Gospel, and obeyed it before witnesses".

During the course of the next ten years Dr Thomas continued to mix with a wide variety of different sects within the American Restorationism movement including the Millerites who later split and became the Jehovah's Witnesses. Please understand that these different sects believed in a very wide variety of different religious doctrines including all of the doctrines that Dr Thomas later formulated into the Christadelphian religion and they also rejected all of the doctrines that Dr Thomas rejected. You can truly make the Bible prove whatever you want it to prove and those people did exactly that. Every Christian belief and unbelief was promoted at one time or another by one or more of the groups, but not of course all at the same time in one sect. The different sects all competed and fought with each other like cat and dogs and castigated each other in the most virulent of language. Each claimed to hold "The Truth" and accused the others of apostasy and heresy.

After a decade of this madness Dr Thomas selected from this mêlée the beliefs and unbeliefs that suited his particular slant on the scriptures and baptised himself for a second time, saying of his previous baptism and beliefs:
"We confess that the whole matter was a mistake, and as such make this public abjuration thereof. ...... Having been immersed into an erroneous system....... I abjure the whole transaction in which I once firmly thought I had once believed the one only true Gospel of Christ".

This was sixteen years after the shipwreck incident. The man that the Christadelphians claim was raised up by God to rediscover the Truth had spent all that time going around in circles trying to discover the Truth. He had only "discovered" the Truth by stitching together different bits and pieces of the American Restorationism movement into something that suited his frame of mind. One hundred and forty years later brother Alan Eyre called it a "serious misrepresentation" to claim that he had rediscovered the Truth and the editor of The Christadelphian magazine agreed with him!

Do you really think that a God who created the entire Universe would let the rediscovery of the Gospel happen in such a crazy mixed up and deceitful way? Where were the angels and the power of the Holy Spirit in all this? Would it not have been helpful for them to have put a bit of effort into reviving the Truth instead of sitting back and watching Dr Thomas run around the American Restorationism movement like a headless chicken getting baptised and re-baptised as he constantly changed his mind about what he believed? How does all this compare to the conversion of Saul/Paul, or the work of John the Baptist or the calling of Peter? It does not compare at all! In my opinion Dr John Thomas the founder of the Christadelphians was a fraud and a liar like any of the current day American TV evangelists who are either inside or outside of jail. To quote the words of Dr Thomas himself: "Pride and ambition were the leading characteristics of my early manhood". - I could not agree more!

But wait - there is more. Soon after Dr Thomas had decided to start his own religion he and his daughter dumped his sick wife Ellen (who was suffering from tuberculosis) in Richmond, Virginia and sailed off to Britain in 1848. He then applied for fellowship at the Church of the Disciples in London which was one of approximately a hundred churches affiliated to the Stone-Campbell Restoration Movement in Britain. In other words he joined the very church that he had rejected a few months previously and did not tell them that he had baptised himself into a different religion. He did this because he wanted to tour Britain poaching their members to join his new faith.

Dr Thomas wrote of this: "Having made his arrangements accordingly, I arrived in London, June 28th, 1848; and in July following I received an invitation to visit Nottingham, and to deliver a course of lectures upon the times, in connection with the prophetic word. The interest created during his short stay was great and encouraging, and became the occasion of invitation to visit other towns and cities also. During this tour I visited Derby, Belper, Lincoln, Edinburgh, Glasgow, and Paisley, and addressed thousands of the people. who heard me gladly". - No mention of the fact that he was masquerading as a member of the Church of the Disciples in order to convert their members to Christadelphianism. In his defence Dr Thomas claimed that he had only rejected many of the doctrines of the Church of the Disciples and not the Church itself. This was doublespeak to hide the fact that he was blatantly lying to them.

One of the Disciples wrote in a magazine at the time:

“We have heard through the medium of some of the Second Advent proclaimers that Mr. John Thomas, M.D., from Richmond, Virginia, is on his way to England, if he has not already landed. We feel justified in stating to the brethren, and to our readers, that Mr. Thomas, in his magazine, some time ago, publicly abjured all connection with the Churches of the Reformation in the United States, more especially with brother Campbell and his associates. He not only renounced what he had learned from them, but also what he taught whilst among them, as being altogether erroneous. He has also been re-baptised, or baptised for the first time, into what he calls the hope of Israel; so that he has discovered not only that the baptism of all others of our brethren is faulty, but that his own also which he received some years ago from the hands of brother Walter Scott, and for which he has pleaded so strenuously, has no foundation in truth.”

For a fuller account of how Dr Thomas attempted to trick his way back into the Disciples Church in London see "Dr Thomas his life and work" by Robert Roberts Chapter 31.

This action caused a row with the elders of the Church of the Disciples who later threw Dr Thomas out of their fellowship but not before he had caused numerous splits amongst their own churches. These splinter groups formed much of the core of the new Christadelphian religion being formed by Dr Thomas and Robert Roberts. One of the elders of the Church of the disciples later commented about this subterfuge: "Thus we were deceived by the founder of Christadelphianism, in order to aid its introduction into churches in this country". Brother Robert Roberts who was aware of all this, wrote of Dr Thomas in his biography: "The part of friends has been rather to hide than expose infirmity. Gratitude threw the ample fold of protection over what may have been deemed the faults of an otherwise great and noble and extraordinary character." In other words he covered up the lies of Dr Thomas. One wonders what else was concealed by Robert Roberts.

Contrary to Christadelphian myth, Dr Thomas continued to evolve his new religion after the publication of Elpis Israel. That book was primarily devoted to the exposition of Bible prophecy and much of the detail relating to doctrine was skipped over. The changing views of its founder caused many splinters and splits within the new group. For example when Dr Thomas stated that the saints would be raised in mortal bodies at the resurrection, a breakaway group that he called "The Dowieties" formed in Britain and another group in America whom he named "Benjamites" - presumably after the leaders of the groups. They started a magazine called "The Gospel Banner" and in Sep 1867 they complained in their magazine about the nasty-minded manner in which Dr Thomas reviled them. To give you a flavour of the unpleasant character of the founder of the Christadelphians, here are some of his words that they quoted:

"We have a great many speculators in the faith on this side of the Atlantic, who profess to be the Ecclesia, mere theorists, who are a sort of amalgam, made up of a little Storrism, a little Adventism, a little Campbellism, and a hodge-podge of traditions, of which water, pork, alcohol, tobacco, salt, leaven, raisins, and the everlasting nigger, are the prolific head-centers." ... "They would rather be notorious for abomination than not notorious at all." ... "The Benjamin Mark Paper is a truly blood-thirsty and diabolical sheet." ... "His own selfishness has been the god of his idolatry; and to gratify this such a man will slander, lie, steal, or play the hypocrite, if it will only pay." ... "They have thought that their new paper might be their old, dirty, and blood-thirsty banner, new revised ... for editing at other people's risk, little Ben has discovered, pays better than printing on his own hook." ... These dishonest, mean-spirited traitors to good faith sought excuse and justification in the devil's law of incorporation." ... "I have put you in possession of these details that the real friends in Britain may know by what sort of natural brute beasts I am assisted." ... "I have hitherto taken no notice of him, nor his confederate, the ex-theatrical candle snuffer, being too much occupied with the Apocalypse." ... "We Christadelphians in America are a distinct generation from the so-called Benjamites - we are strong in the faith and unspoiled by accursed crotchets, which, when blended with it, make it ineffectual and generative of knaves and hypocrites."

This sort of disgusting language is sprinkled liberally throughout Dr Thomas's works, causing in the year 2000 the then editor of the Christadelphian magazine to write this note in a new edition of Elpis Israel: "At the time when it was written, frank speech expressed in robust language was indulged in without offence, and in this matter the book reflects its age. The forthrightness of the writer is seen in the vigour of his words and modern readers must make some allowance for this".

I can think of no better way to persuade Christadelphians to leave their religion, or to dissuade others from joining than by encouraging them to read the book in its entirety. It is bad tempered rambling nonsense from start to finish. Dr Thomas even claims that the Earth was inhabited by a race of alien angels before Adam and other rubbish that would cause modern day Christadelphians to cringe if they ever read it.

Let us continue to consider the writings of Doctor Thomas in this quotation from "Elpis Israel" (ed: See discussion below - this quote appears to be from the Gospel Banner in 1848, but still from John Thomas)

"The Judgment upon Ireland has been sitting since 1786. That crisis was the beginning of a retribution of seventy-five years. This period is called 'THE END' ......... After 1864 Ireland and the rest of the world will enter upon a new era, in which peace, righteousness, and blessedness will reign in the midst of the nations."

Not only did Christ not return in 1864 but Sinn Féin and later the IRA wrought terrorism and havoc in Ireland and the British mainland for over a hundred years after 1864.

Or this from Dr Thomas:

"My conviction is that the judgment upon Babylon will be announced as about to set; and that the ancient of days and the saints will meet in the air and among the clouds, in the common A.D. 1866, or 1290 years from A.D. 606."

This from Dr Thomas in "Anatolia":

"My conviction is that the judgment upon Babylon will be announced as about to set; and that the ancient of days and the saints will meet in the air and among the clouds, in the common A.D. 1866, or 1290 years from A.D. 606." ............... "But in a few years, that is, about 1866, when the 1335 years terminate, he will 'arise to his inheritance' in the Kingdom of God". ............. "How highly important is this exhortation now, seeing that in about a dozen years the resurrection will have transpired, and no further invitation to inherit it be presented to the world. The glory that shall follow is great for the approved (the Christadelphians). The world is theirs, when all nations come and do homage before the Prince of Israel, because His judgments are made manifest. But before they can have 'power over the nations,' they must bind the strong that rule them. This is their mission at the end of the 1335 years: 'To execute vengeance upon the nations, and punishment upon the peoples; to bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron; to execute upon them the judgment written; this honour have all his saints.' From A.D. 1866 to A.D. 1911, a period of over forty years, they will be engaged in this work and in the organizing the world upon new and better principles."

Not only did Dr Thomas erroneously and repeatedly state that Christ would return in 1866 but he also said that "the approved" (Christadelphians) would execute vengeance on the nations for forty years up until 1911.

Elsewhere Dr Thomas elaborates in detail how his immortal immoral Christadelphians will steal and plunder from the mortal population of the world:

"The estates of all the misers of this present evil world will be turned to righteous and beneficent account by and bye, in the hands of Jesus and His brethren. Only when that time comes they won't have to wait the death of the misers. They will take possession, and turn the owners adrift, in most cases into the grave." ... "All the earth will learn at the cost of much blood and treasure......"

This from Dr Thomas writing in "Elpis Israel":

"The sword only, can prepare the way for this. Mankind must be made to lick the dust like a serpent, before they will consent to change their creeds for eternal truth. Judgment will bring them to reason"............. "Nothing but violence in the beginning, in order to punish and crush the tyrants, can prepare the way for the amelioration of society. This is the order, as I shall show, which God has ordained as preliminary to the setting up of His kingdom."

This from Robert Roberts the first editor of the Christadelphian magazine and close friend of Dr Thomas:

"He (Christ) will enter into conflict with the world, drive Gentile power from every throne, and establish His kingdom under the whole heaven. Christadelphian operations will then be transferred from the arena of debate to that of military coercion."

More detail of this Christadelphian instigated genocide is given by Robert Roberts in Christendom Astray lecture 15:

"God Himself will operate in visible judgment upon the nations of the earth.......... a divine manifestation in the person of the Son of Man accompanied by sweeping judgments of fire and sword which will destroy large masses of mankind.......... The vengeance in relation to mankind will be destruction to the majority, and discipline to the remnant. Multitudes will perish by war and pestilence; multitudes more will fall victims to the fire which will descend............... The earth's population will be greatly thinned; its reprobate elements expurgated, leaving a residue composed of the meek and submissive, and well–disposed of mankind, who will constitute the willing subjects of Messiah's kingdom........ The saints co–operate with Christ in executing the judgments written. ...........It will be their privilege "to execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people.......Thus it is obvious that in the closing judgment–scenes of this dispensation, the saints will be associated with the Lord Jesus in destroying the political, ecclesiastical, and social systems.............. This is a work of devastation ................ will involve much destruction of life, ....... Widespread will be the desolations produced; bloody and scathing the judgments ministered at the hands of Jesus and the saints. (Christadelphians)"

The corruption of the various American TV evangelists who are currently languishing in US jails is eclipsed by the evil that the founders of Christadelphianism proposed to unleash on the World. They were planning to kill and maim millions, perhaps billions of humanity in a forty year Holy Spirit empowered orgy of death and violence ending in 1911. The one hundred million deaths in the two World wars and the work of Hitler and Stalin seem tame by comparison with what Dr Thomas and Robert Roberts were planning. In their paranoia they imagined that the result of this great work would be to "Leave a residue composed of the meek and submissive, and well–disposed of mankind, who will constitute the willing subjects of Messiah's kingdom". - What planet were they on? Did they really think that such a plan would succeed? A reign of terror more horrific than The Great Terror of the French revolution, worse than the purges of Stalinist Russia, more brutal that Hitler's Final Solution, more awful than the Killing Fields of Cambodia during the Khmer Rouge reign of death? What would the relatives of those who were killed think about Christ's Christadelphian Kingdom? They would NEVER forgive the Christadelphians and their leaders for inflicting such pain and suffering on the world.

Little wonder that the nations were predicted to rise up at the end of the millennium in one final act of rebellion against Christ. It would be the equivalent of the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto rising up against their Nazi tormentors and murderers in a last but futile gesture of defiance and desperation against their evil rulers.

But of course none of this will ever happen. Dr Thomas was 100% wrong about Christ returning in 1886. He was wrong about Ireland, he was wrong about the Christadelphian forty year reign of terror, he was wrong about the Kingdom and he was wrong about everything else. I again urge you to read Elpis Israel. Practically everything that the doctor predicted in that book did NOT come true. Moreover it is obvious that the events that he foretold that did happen were merely the result of coincidence. Even Christadelphians who read the book and see the endless detail about events in the Nineteenth Century, which Dr Thomas called "The Last Days", must surely realise that the Bible could not possibly have been so obsessed with Nineteenth Century history and then completely miss out all of the next century without a word!

The modern day TV evangelist tricksters daily predict that we are in the "End Times" and that the return of Christ is imminent. They have no more idea what is going on than Doctor John Thomas. They are continuing the long tradition of American Revisionists and snake oil salesmen of which the founder of the Christadelphians was but a minor participant. We are continuing the long tradition of the naive and gullible who buy the books, purchase the snake oil, submit to baptism and put money on the collection plates. We think that we are so smart being able to throw Bible verses around to prove our case and to defend our position. Everyone else in all of the other denominations thinks exactly the same way. We think that they are mistaken while they think that we are mistaken. No one has the brains to realise that this all proves only one thing - that we are ALL mistaken.

It must be obvious that this man that the Christadelphians claim was raised up by God to rediscover the Truth was clueless when it came to interpreting Bible prophecy correctly. But again I ask - what did God think that he was doing as he watched all this insanity unfold? Was it too much to ask that he use the Holy Spirit to nudge Dr Thomas in the right direction so that his chosen people would not be led completely up the garden path by erroneous teaching?

And as we now know how brainless, paranoid and psychopathic Dr Thomas and Robert Roberts were when it came to expounding Bible prophecy, what assurance can we have that their writings about other Biblical matters were any more correct than their mistaken ramblings about Bible prophecy? What is the difference? The difference is that we can prove by the passage of time that Dr Thomas was unable to expound Bible prophecy but we can't prove that he was mistaken about the doctrinal matters. We have to hope that he was as accurate about expounding the Gospel as he was inaccurate about expounding Bible prophecy.

But what guarantee do we have that Dr Thomas selected exactly the right mix of the many thousands of different beliefs and unbeliefs doing the rounds of the Nineteenth Century American Restorationism movement in order to rediscover the Truth? You really can make the Bible prove whatever you want it to prove and then dig your heels in and defend your position. But the same can be done with thousands of other beliefs about the Bible, many of them completely contradictory to each other. Don't kid yourself that you are smart enough to spot the genuine article amongst the thousands of flaws. And what if all those beliefs are flaws? What if there is no genuine article? Do you have the nerve to shout "A plague on all your houses" to the different peddlers of Christianity and to turn around and walk away?

That’s exactly what I did and it was the best decision of my entire life. Leaving the Christadelphians meant leaving a tyranny of lies, deception and fraud. If you are a Christadelphian and you genuinely seek “The Truth” I recommend that your first step to discovering truth is to write a letter of resignation to the Arranging Brethren of your Ecclesia. Free your mind from Christadelphian subterfuge and seek genuine truth wherever it may be found.

Resurrection Debunked

The “Evidence” for Jesus’ Resurrection, Debunked in One Page

by Chris Hallquist

Among Evangelical Christians, it’s become popular to claim that Jesus’ resurrection can be proved with historical evidence. This is nonsense. Here’s why:


1. There is no evidence for the resurrection outside the Bible. Non-Christian historical references to Jesus don’t occur until about six decades after the time when Biblical scholars think he probably died. When these non-Christian sources refer to Jesus’ miracles, there’s no reason to see them as anything more than a report of what Christians of the time believed.

2. There is little evidence that the Gospels were written by eyewitnesses, or based directly on eyewitness accounts. Most of what the Bible says about Jesus’ life and supposed resurrection is in the first four books of the New Testament: Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, (a.k.a. the Gospels). But Biblical scholars now agree these books were originally anonymous, their names added later. The traditional Christian claims about who wrote them is now widely doubted by scholars.

3. This means that the Gospels can’t be trusted as evidence for miracles. Imagine someone trying to convert you to another religion based on the “proof” of the miracles worked by the religion’s founder... in the form of a handful of anonymous tracts recounting his life. Would you accept that “proof”? Of course not. Among other things, the stories could just be legends.

4.One of Paul’s letters provides evidence that a number of people claimed Jesus had appeared to them after his death. But this isn’t proof of a miracle. The passage is 1st Corinthians 15:3-9, and most Biblical scholars agree it was really written by Paul. But again, would you accept similar evidence in favor of another religion’s miracles? The Mormon church has statements signed by several people attesting to miracles that are supposed to confirm the truth of the Book of the Mormon, but you probably won’t convert to Mormonism based on that. Also, Paul doesn’t tell us how he knows about all these appearances, so we can’t be confident his report is accurate.

5. Reports that Jesus’ disciples were martyred prove nothing. Reports of the martyrdom of Jesus' disciples do not occur in this historical record until long after their deaths would have occurred, and accounts sometimes conflict with one another. It could be that most, even all, of these stories are legends. In any case, not only do people sometimes give up their lives for delusions, even outright charlatans have been killed for their claims. Joseph Smith was probably a charlatan, but he died at the hands of a lynch mob. So we can’t rule out deception among Jesus’ followers.

6. Claims that this or that individual couldn’t possibly have hallucinated are nonsense. Even apparently sane people hallucinate for a wide variety of reasons and under a wide variety of circumstances. We can’t rule this out for people who claimed to have seen the risen Jesus.

7. Even if there were several people in Paul’s day who would have claimed to have all seen the risen Jesus at the same time, their testimony might not have stood up to scrutiny. There have been cases where a group of children have claimed to see the Virgin Mary, and been taken seriously by adults who should have known better. In many of these cases, the children were questioned individually and their descriptions of what they saw didn’t match, suggesting deception or delusion.

8. That’s it. Part of me thinks that what I’ve said in this one page is all that needs to be said on the subject. But if you want to know how I back up these claims, you can get my book UFOs, Ghosts, and a Rising God: Debunking the Resurrection of Jesus. The book also includes a crash course in New Testament scholarship, discussions of faith healing and Biblical prophecy, and plenty of tidbits about the strange beliefs people have had throughout history. It’s available on Amazon, and there’s more information, including links to reviews, on my website, UncredibleHallq.net.

The Last Days Were At Hand

From the time John the Baptist preached that the time was at hand (meaning very soon) to Peter saying "the end of all things is at hand" and Jesus promising his return in "this generation" of 2,000 years ago, things have continued as if they never had said those things.

It can't be emphasized enough that the whole New Testament is one big failed prophecy of the soon return of Jesus and the immediate arrival of judgment day. It didn't happen - get over it.

That some of the doomsayers, like Christadelphians, claim that God just felt sorry for us and is just giving us a little longer to repent because of an imagined 1st century apostasy means nothing but an excuse for continuing to be stupid. I mean, it has been 2,000 years, give-me-a-break!

Yes, it's very popular nowadays to claim that God has postponed judgment day indefinitely - just any old excuse to keep the cults up and running, I suppose.

Casting Pearls

In a discussion about the change in thinking of certain modern theologians in the Bible Truth Discussion Forum we have these pearls.

Ken Gilmore: This of course leaves me to wonder whether a Unitarian Christology similar to ours will eventually emerge among a minority of academic evangelicals. NT Wright's views on the afterlife hint that significant change is possible. To paraphrase, Robert Jastrow, "At this moment it seems as theology will never be able to raise the curtain on the mystery of the Bible. For the theologian who has lives by his faith in the Westminster Confession, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of Christadelphians who have been sitting there for decades."

Fortigurn: Modern Christians hark back to the historic peace churches such as the Quakers and Mennonites when seeking evidence that Christianity has not always been in support of slavery, and to make the argument that not all Christians 'got it wrong'. One day we will be one of the denominations used by contemporary Christians to demonstrate that not all Christians 'got it wrong' over the state of the dead, the atonement, Satan and demons, and the identity of Christ. It's reassuring to know that we're a significant part of a Christian tradition which will one day be lauded rather than vilified. Incredible as it may seem, some Christadelphians are unhappy about this, and don't want to know about the churches changing their beliefs and becoming more aligned with ours.

Check it out here

Did anyone else interprete that the same way as I did?

Un-Writing the Bible: Enoch's Son of Man and Jesus

Part 3:

The Son of Man in the book of Enoch appears to be more than just a Jewish Messiah but more like a pre-existent spirit being who reigns on his "throne of glory" in heaven. That then brings us to chapter 45 where "the Elect One" sits on a throne of glory that is apparently on the earth:

3In that day shall the Elect One sit upon a throne of glory; and shall choose their conditions and countless habitations, while their spirits within them shall be strengthened, when they behold my Elect One, for those who have fled for protection to my holy and glorious name.
4In that day I will cause my Elect One to dwell in the midst of them; will change the face of heaven; will bless it, and illuminate it for ever.

Then, in chapter 46 the Elect One is shown to be "The Son of Man":

1There I beheld the Ancient of days, whose head was like white wool, and with him another, whose countenance resembled that of man. His countenance was full of grace, like that of one of the holy angels. Then I inquired of one of the angels, who went with me, and who showed me every secret thing, concerning this Son of man; who he was; whence he was and why he accompanied the Ancient of days.

2He answered and said to me, This is the Son of man, to whom righteousness belongs; with whom righteousness has dwelt; and who will reveal all the treasures of that which is concealed: for the Lord of spirits has chosen him; and his portion has surpassed all before the Lord of spirits in everlasting uprightness.

I notice that this son of man only resembles a man, does that mean that he is not really a man but only appears to be a man like in the doctrine of the Docetists about Jesus?

The Son of Man is also going to reveal things that were concealed, which is similar to what Jesus said:

Luk 12:2 For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known.

Most of the time Jesus calls himself "the Son of Man" but sometimes he speaks of the son of man in the third person:

Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Anyway, I notice that the Son of Man in the book of Enoch is also "full of grace" just like Jesus is said to be.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 1 has convinced many Christians that Jesus was also pre-existent, just like the Son of Man in the book of Enoch.
 
Also, many of Jesus' words about the Son of Man sound as if he is actually a heavenly deity with supernatural powers and heavenly authority, just as the Son of Man in the book of Enoch - Matt. 9:6; 12:8; 12:32; 13:41; 25:31, just to mention a few.
 

Un-Writing the Bible: Enoch's Son of Man and Jesus

Part 2:

The Book of Enoch:

The elect shall possess light, joy, and peace; and they shall inherit the earth. (6:9)

The words of Jesus:

Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. (Matt. 5:5)

From where I left off in the Book of Enoch in part 1, it goes on to describe the fallen angels when there really are no fallen angels in the Old Testament. In Genesis, before the flood, "the sons of God" represent the followers and/or descendants of Seth and the "daughters of men" represent the descendants of Cain. The actual sin committed was marrying outside of the faith, which was still condemned under the law of Moses and even in the New Testament.

When some Christian read about the "giants in the earth" from this intermarriage they see actual giants and that Christian idea may, in fact, come from the book of Enoch, which describes the fallen ones as being 300 cubits tall.

The giants, however, are really just tyrants (the KJV mistranslates the word). The actual tyrants are known to historians as priest/kings - they were the men in ancient times who founded kingdoms and claimed territory. They filled both the offices of king and priest in order to claim territory as being given to them by their god - the same way Abraham's descendants claimed Canaan - God gave it to Abraham and his descendants. That's where the Israelites get the authority to claim it and commit genocide over it in the OT.

Angels are supposed to be spirit beings - they could not have sex with humans. Even Jesus says that angels are sexless when he said that they "neither marry nor are they given in marriage". So, where does this idea of fallen angels come from in the new testament writings, i.e., demons and such. And, if they are bound in chains in darkness, how is it they are running around tempting people to sin? See 2 Pet. 2:4 and Jude 1:6 which comes straight out of the book of Enoch in the chapters following where I left off in part 1. So, we see that both 2 Peter and Jude quote things from 1Enoch as if it is sacred scripture.

Un-Writing the Bible: Enoch's Son of Man and Jesus

Part I of a planned series.

Found among the Dead Sea scrolls are 7 fragments of a pre-Christian era book known as the Book of Enoch. This book of Enoch is directly quoted in the New Testament:

Behold, he comes with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon them, and destroy the wicked, and reprove all the carnal for everything which the sinful and ungodly have done, and committed against him. (chapter 2.1)

Quoted by Jude, vss. 14, 15 - Proving the early Christian knowledge of the book of Enoch.

This book is also included in the canon of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, which proves that some Christians have thought of the book of Enoch as sacred scripture.

My intention with this series is to go through the book of 1 Enoch and show, if not downright prove, where it was used to invent the New Testament and Jesus as "the Son of Man" written about in that book. Starting out, I don't know how successful I will be in proving that but you may follow along in the book of Enoch at this link: http://www.johnpratt.com/items/docs/enoch.html