When prophecy comes true

By Jon Morgan

Right now, the world is reeling from the Russian invasion of Ukraine. And some Christadelphians are excited about it. Just like so many times before. Prophecy is unfolding before their eyes. The end times are here, and the return of Jesus is just around the corner. It’s the fulfilment of God’s great plan, and anyone who happens to be hurt by it is just unfortunate collateral damage.

But that’s not really what I want to talk about. I want to talk about
prophecy that really does come true.

Click here to read the rest of this article

41 comments:

  1. Whatever you think of the WAR,its a disgrace. Now there is talk of public exacutions. Even the two lovley boys Strong & Morgan will agree on that.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Paul, like I've commented before, you have a history of short comments that no-one is really sure what you're trying to say, and that doesn't help discussion.

    I have no idea why you are singling me and Joseph out - do we usually seem pro-war? Or is it something else completely?

    Anyway, I'd make three points:
    1. The war in Ukraine is not a good thing.

    2. Some Christadelphians are saying they're excited about it. This seems at best tone-deaf.

    3. I have no specific insights on the invasion of Ukraine, which is why I instead wrote about the prophecy implications. That's also why I thought the post relevant to this site.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. When the horror of the Ukraine invasion came on the news one of my first thoughts was to wonder how many brethren were scouring the bible for now obvious references to it. (I was disfellowshipped 46 years ago for taking communion at a C of E church)

      Delete
  3. I think you do know what im getting at.If anyone comments on this site that either of you two dont like or agree on they are shot down in flames. Doesnt worry me personally what you have to say to me, but i think you could be a bit less arrogant and condesending at times with others. You certainly dont have to like or agree with what people say . Fair enough...But handle it a bit different. I will give you the thumbs up for point 1 in your three points.I think you are a bit off track with point 2. Not all are excited to see innocent people suffer, in fact i think most are not.If people enjoy that, they are mentally not well.Point 3 you are honest and fair enough.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Paul, anyone less arrogant and condescending than Jon would be hard to find. Jon`s point 2 is correct. Cds are excited about what Putin is doing in Ukraine. Some have told me so. This does mean that they are tone-deaf. How can anyone be excited on the one hand about where they see God`s hand in the affairs of humans, and on the other not be confused that God`s hand causes so much suffering. But then, perhaps they manage to turn a blind eye when they read the carnage and suffering caused by God`s hand in the stories of the OT. I don`t, of course, see God`s hand in this or believe there is such a god.

      Delete
    2. Thanks, Mancott.

      Paul, like Mancott, I've heard Christadelphians say they are excited, and seen Facebook posts from people I know saying it's exciting. I'm well aware that it's not all Christadelphians, which is why I said "some".

      And I think it would be courteous to believe that when I say I don't understand what you're getting at, I mean it.

      Delete
    3. Hi All,

      My own CD mother put in a family group chat "Very amazing things unfolding around us, Christ could be here very soon!!" This is very typical CD speak for when they think their prize is coming soon and who really cares about the death of Women and Children. I'm sure when asked most CD's wouldn't think the death of Women and Children is a good thing but mostly don't give it much thought and prefer to concentrate on their prize.

      I can just imagine all the talk of the Ukraine War at CD meetings on Sundays of prophecy being fulfilled and not a thought or second given to all the innocent deaths occurring.

      What gets me is Christ’s return is always imminent, soon, could happen anytime etc. but then someone will give a talk on prophecy detailing the events before Christ’s return. If all these events have to happen first and your interpretation of the prophecy is correct then I don’t believe you can have it both ways.

      The prophecy in the Bible is not specific and like most other non specific prophecies can be lined up to any sort of event eventually. To be in line with modern methods of reasoning the bible verse would need to go something like this. Ezekiel 38 verse 1 - Therefore I say in March of the year 2022 the President Valdimir Putin of the country named Russia will send in troops in Ukraine and attack the country to attempt to take over the government and run the country.

      Ezekiel 38 verse 2 - This would say if he is successful or not.

      That is something I could believe if proof was given that it was made long before the event. Any sort of prophecy less that that is not something I can believe in and if you use modern methods of reasoning you properly wouldn’t either.

      Delete
    4. Exactly right RadMan. Like Brexit which simply reversed a 1973 event and in 1973 they did not say that it would be a while before the return. If Putin is successful, then it would simply reverse a 1991 event when Ukraine left the Soviet Union. What they say on BITN etc is that Russia will form an alliance with Catholic Europe. Putin's war has moved us away from that as 'Catholic Europe' is strengthening its ties to the NATO military alliance. CDs have saying the return is imminent for 150 years now.

      Delete
    5. Another one of my short comments..that will get somone going im sure!
      Was Ezekiel really talking about Russia anyway??The article on here about that makes interesting reading. Who knows?

      Delete
    6. Douglas BridgebainMarch 9, 2022 at 11:59 AM

      Nostradamus is just as reliable. Shun delusion and mysticism. They're piles of chicken droppings.

      Delete
  4. You may have misunderstood me on this ocassion if you really did thats fair enough.Although not all replys are courteous at times.

    I can only hope that the "some" you refer too are only excited what they think is profecy is coming alive. I spoke to one yesterday and she is excited, but certainly not with the suffering. I for one am certainly not excited by the suffering.The videos out there are heartbreaking and shocking period.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Paul, the "prophecy is coming alive" in Cds thinking must be, as they understand it, by the Hand of God, and so the resulting associated suffering must also be down to the H-o-G, and it is difficult to understand how Cd`s can separate excitement about the one from being "heartbroken and shocked" about the other.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes the logic is impeccable, I have not seen them say the invasion is the work of the angels, but as they say that about Brexit, why not this ?
      Pat Robertson, the ex US TV evangelist who has the same view of prophecy as the CDs and said that God compelled Putin to invade!

      Delete
  6. OH. MY. GOD. It's GOG and MAGOG, heading south to invade the precious Zionist motherland !! %$%$#$@!! It's a gonna happen THIS TIME (never mind the last fifty times we were positive about it being imminent). Where's Ethel Merman? We need her to sing the overture!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hey all, I find the site and comments interesting. I recently left a cult after nearly 40 years and finally feel at peace. One of the things I couldn't get past was the doom and gloom. Everytime Russia or a country in the middle east makes a fuss, THIS IS IT! THE RETURN only to be disappointed over and over. Brethren even put a date on it. The hypocrisy of it all. Brother Thomas said this or that as if he was inspired in some way while calling Joseph Smith a fraud. Saying don't be involved in politics but you keep putting the same power hungry brothers as AB's for years knowing there are problems. Once you leave, you are cut off as if you never existed. I feel at peace for once in my life. Thanks for listening.

      Delete
    2. I apologize for the similar response. I didn't see the original post after I published it so I tried to post again only to realize that it took a little while to show up. Sorry.

      Delete
  7. Hey guys, I have found this site and discussions quite interesting being a Christo for nearly 40 years and left. There are many of us who feel the way we do and have since left. For me, I had such a hard time with the hypocrisy of it all. You preach not to get involved in politics or voting but you vote in the same brothers on a power trip for years much like we are seeing in some of our governments. They preach not to get involved but let the world handle it while we sit back in an armchair and wait for the return. Everything Russia or another nation makes a fuss, THIS IS IT!! Only to be disappointed over and over. Brothers even trying to put dates on it, yes I have heard it. I always heard Brother Thomas says this or that as if he was inspired in some way and they call Joseph Smith a fraud. I felt like I wasted half of my life in a cult. Met some genuine people over the years and many who claim they never knew you once you leave. I don't believe they know anything about what the Bible really says having claimed to read it all their lives. For once I feel at peace. Sad to say but the pandemic showed many people the truth. Thanks for listening.

    ReplyDelete
  8. It's all a lot of oral masturbation for people who are incapable of otherwise living structured and meaningful lives. Instead, they drown themselves in a lot of idiotic primitive scribblings, writings full of superstition and violence that condone slavery, killing, and misogyny. Best thing that ever happened to me was the day I got up quietly during a service and serenely walked out to the parking lot and drove away, saying to myself: "That's a door I'll never darken again."

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I understand completely Dorothy.

      Delete
  9. Bothers me greatly that all prophecies and morality are considered illegitimate unless derived from the Bible. Read Marcus Aurelius -- much of the morality dictated in the Bible is also expressed in his writings. "Do unto others...." So much for such tenets being handed down from "on high."

    ReplyDelete
  10. Was in the bank the other day, and a CD was in the line ahead of me. She turned and recognized me, gave me an almost solemn little smirk, and said, "What is man, that Thou, God, are even mindful of him?"

    I responded without biting my tongue: "What is GAWD, that man is mindful of HIM? What is GAWD, that man is mindful of fraudulent DELUSIONS? Can your GAWD be seen, or touched? Does he speak to us and command us? Does he pay our electric bill or heal our colon cancer? WHERE ARE YA, DEAR GAWD."

    She stood there and gave me a baleful stare, along with the two other bank customers, who were wondering what the hell was going on.

    My acquaintance then turned her back on me.

    I pointed at the vault and yelled, "Maybe HE is in THERE, where they've got the HOLY GHOST and JIMMY HOFFA locked up!"

    Whereupon she put back her deposit slip and fled into the parking lot.

    ReplyDelete
  11. John Bedson is posting some pretty vicious rants of his own about this site, on his "Former Christadelphians" site. He is an apologist for the cult, and anything anyone suffered in it is to be disregarded, because the cult's members are, in his opinion, essentially "nice people."

    Talk about theater of the absurd.

    I see no evidence his site is getting any traction.

    Good.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. John's welcome to publish whatever he likes. I haven't read it, but I doubt it merits any more response than has been given in lengthy comment threads earlier this year.

      Delete
    2. I walked away from the Cds about 40 years ago, and of the handful of Cds that I then had as good friends, most have remained good friends, even though they are still "in" and I am very much "out". This friendship I value and encourage, though it irritates me that they can`t see what they still accept as bible truth.
      As for John B, I still think that something happened to John to alter his mindset in some way. I haven`t visited his "Former Christadelphians" site.

      Delete
  12. Russia is not winning this war. It is not according to christadelphian understanding which is Turkey not Ukraine according to Dr Thomas. Now of Russia and Iran was to invade Saudi Arabia I might start to believe. However this is just another red herring

    ReplyDelete
  13. The red herring is the whole basis of CD doctrine, that the whole bible is literally true and relevant to us today, and therefore talk of a thousand years, beasts and images must be fitted in to current or near future events. In the normal church this is part of what we call dispensationalism, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispensationalism). This is a modern idea that took hold in the mid 19th century, Dr Thomas just developed a non-trinitarian sub-version of the pre-millenialist version. Something that CDs are blind to. They dont even look to see where they fit in Church history.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Hassan.....very well said. And the older I get, the more I flee from all organized religion as being mass delusion.

    It is more of an encumbrance or burden than a benefit.

    ReplyDelete
  15. All religion is bat shxt. CDism is just a battier version of it. Live with clear vision. We are born, we die. Create your own meaning and purpose in the interim period. Shun all imaginary nonsense and live in the light of reason.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Marge, "...live in the light of reason", is good advice, and it is to be hoped that young Cds who study at uni, as they are taught to apply reason to subjects, this reasoning approach might filter down through any indoctrination previously overlaid upon them by Cd parents and other Cds, when all they had to do was believe and not question or examine.
    The only other way to avoid bat shxt is to stay indoors at night and stay out of caves.

    ReplyDelete
  17. When I look at what CDism has done to my relatives....it makes me want to weep. It has turned them into Stepford wives. It has hobbled and shackled and limited their lives and their potentials. In that regard it -- and all religion perhaps -- is evil. I understand now why the Communists dynamited churches. I think in that situation, however, that the suckers just replaced one form of religion with another (the replacement was Communism/Socialism).

    ReplyDelete
  18. My sister is married to a very fundamental christadelphian and I have watched her disappear little by little.
    My beautiful, funny, intelligent sister got swallowed up by this insidious, harmful sect.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's tragic isn't it. I feel like I wasted half of my life I can no longer get back because of it. Since I have left I can honestly say I feel happy and at peace. No more doom and gloom. This is the end times everytime some country makes a move. Hypocrisy at it's finest. If John Thomas wasn't inspired then why bash other religions and their founders. Won't look back.

      Delete
  19. It is a "cult," regardless of what John Bedson contends. The longer most of us are out of it, the clearer that becomes.

    ReplyDelete
  20. It takes time to see things clearly. The scales don't completely fall from your eyes for a number of years. And then, the longer you're away from them, the more horrified you become looking at what you were once a part of. My own relatives are absolutely lunatics when it comes to CD doctrine. They have no self-perception at all. They are around the bend and nutty on CD BS.

    ReplyDelete
  21. When I would not conform to their beliefs, or remain a part of their group, they asked me to go whitewater rafting on a very dangerous river with people I'd never met. I was asked to spend the night in a motel room with people I'd never met. "Friends." At first I was going to go; and then it occurred to me I'd never received such an invitation before. It didn't feel safe. In my gut, I felt uneasy. I'd also just received an inheritance, which my relatives felt was part of an estate that wasn't divided up fairly. I thought, "My uneasiness is unwarranted. These are CDs, pacifists." Then I heard about the New England CD who turned out to be a serial killer. That was when I cancelled the river trip. Curiously, none of my relatives then went on the trip.

    You tell me.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Jody, if you read the things you have posted in a novel you wouldn`t believe they could happen in real life. But, apparently, they do. Fortunately, the majority of Cds do not behave in this way. What is not fortunate for them, or most of them, is that they are by indoctrination trapped in a belief that is not reasonable. They don`t think for themselves. They just go on believing what has been, and is still being, pushed into them, and confirmed and perpetuated by Confirmation Bias.

      Delete
  22. They're a pretty cult. Kind of like the Mormons or the Jehovah's Witnesses or the Mennonites. Everything looks neat and tidy superficially, and behind the scenery often lurks Dorian Grey.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Just was told by a convert to CD's that what is happening in Ukraine is the start of what is to come. Gog\Rosh has started his move, and Christ return is just around the corner, Putin will attack Turkey next then move towards Israel, this lady said : " you may not find me one day, I will be taken ". these idiots are out of this world, just can't help themselves from making up these prophesies and truly believe in the BS they put out. I said when the war stops at Ukraine, I will remind you that all this BS you talking about was just CD's dream, ohh no she said, you are wrong, we are right, because we know. OMG another nut case.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anon, try suggesting to this person that, if her God is behind the move by Putin in Ukraine, and this is His plan, then it must logically follow that all the destruction and death of men, women, young children and new-born babies, is also down to Him. Is this the kind of God she`s happy to worship?

      Delete
    2. The short answer: YES.

      Delete
  24. The CDs' attitude toward Ukraine? Sort of like how Israel can slaughter thousands of Palestinians and CDs and other good Christians turn a blind eye. "It's part of God's plan." "We must not criticize God's holy people." Brainwashed suckers.

    ReplyDelete

Please do not comment as 'Anonymous'. Rather, choose 'Name/URL' and use a fake name. The URL can be left blank. This makes it easier to see who is replying to whom.