Bible in the News - Discussion post

 Bible in the News is a Christadelphian podcast which aims to "provide a weekly analysis of world politics and events in the light of Bible prophecy".  Recently it has frequently come up in discussion here, particularly with relation to a Brexit post.

This is intended as a discussion post for Bible in the News.  It can also be used as a discussion post for anything else related to Christadelphian prophecy interpretation or current events.

27 comments:

  1. Albert HendersonApril 3, 2021 at 3:03 PM

    CDs rework their pathetic prophecy material as events unfold. And Jesus is always scheduled to arrive imminently on the next train.

    We get one life. Live it. I got so tired of hearing CDs bleating about how "the signs" pointed to J. H. Christ arriving any minute. I watched generations of them live and die, parroting that deluded garbage back and forth to one another. I recall once contradicting "the facts" of a "brother," and having him bark rabidly into my face. Heaven and hell are here on earth, and we create and experience them here. Know your joy now; it is all you are going to get. And whatever it may or may not be, it is worth having.

    A final note: notice how the disciples of Christ were told he would return soon. Each generation since has waited for the clouds to part. Two thousand years later, we're still waiting on that train. Don't waste one moment on such drivel. I have an acquaintance who says he is still a CD only because he is a "cultural Christadelphian" and a "cultural Christian." As for the actual tenets, he picks and chooses as he likes. Could anything be more pathetic?

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  2. In hindsight, I have never understood why so many people have deferred living their lives in order to wait for the unfolding of nonsensical prophecies written by primitives and stored in dusty caverns. The Chosenites were repeatedly under assault in Israel and/or were dispelled from their sacred soil. They wrote about the restoration of their homeland after their anticipated releases from Babylonian or Roman domination. Nothing more, nothing less. No one is coming to redeem us. We redeem our own lives, if they are to be redeemed at all. Out, out, all you spinsters decaying in pews. Go out into the world. Stroke the petals on a dogwood tree. Go buy a beer, and get tipsy. Find romance, or pay someone for it. All of those things are worth infinitely more than burying your brain in caveman theism.

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  3. I've just had a read of the latest BITN bulletin (April 9th) and it is, as I expected, laughable. The usual breathless reports of Russian aggression toward other nations are followed by a quote from Ezekiel and a contrived massaging of the text to arrive at a hidden prophecy.
    Being a CD must be like being stuck in an endless groundhog day-like loop. Every time Russia moves a tank, the same claims are trotted out again and again, and will be indefinitely until the brethren die out or everyone gets fed up of waiting for Jesus's non-return.

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    1. I gave up on the prophecy side of the denomination many years before I left Christadelphia for exactly that reason: It seemed perfectly obvious that the same few verses were being used over and over again, and there was no reason to believe that they applied this time than last time.

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  4. There are two films all CDs should see - especially those leaving CD. 1st film is "The Stepford Wives." This film so reminds me of the institutional mysogony that most CD women seem so happy to accept and support. 2nd film is "Life of Brian" by Monty Python. Critics of Life of Brian often say that it is a mockery of Christ. They are wrong - I have seen the film many times. The film makes fun of people, who stop thinking critically and consequently, do stupid things. When John Clese was beeen interviewed about Life of Brian he said much the same. He pinted out that they had looked at the extremes of political and religious movements act stupidly and stop thinking for themselves.

    LIfe of Brian explains why CDs are so removed from reality - another film is The Truman Show. A very funny and disturbing film about someone who was in a reality TV show but does not know, he is part of this show. He thinks all the people around him are real people. Sounds a bit like the World of CDs!!

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    1. From a Monty Python movie:

      "She is a witch. She must be burned at the stake. She made me a deaf-mute."

      "But you're talking and hearing."

      "I got better."

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  5. A delusional CD of my acquaintance has recently been writing articles about biblical prophecies regarding the moon, and how different recent moon cycles indicate the Second Advent is imminent. "Blood Moons," he calls them. The other CDs nod with great seriousness, and allow this foolishness to be presented to audiences.

    The older I get, the more childish these fantasies appear to become. And all the more sad, that intelligent adults cleave to them. Religion is indeed the opiate of the masses.

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  6. I used to run the Bible prophecy channel on YouTube. I gave up on prophecy a long time ago. I found out there is no Jesus coming from the sky there's only one life and that's this life and in this life you gotta save yourself

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  7. Another loon turned into a legend. It happens in most religions -- crank religions or otherwise. In the end, he is just another ape contemplating his navel and straining to interpret the universe. And most of the interpretation ends up crapping up its adherents' lives.

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  8. I am fairly certain I can make all biblical prophecies about the past turn into prophecies about the future if I only use invention I mean interpretation.

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  9. This is off topic, but after watching the latest Joe Biden speech I think that he missed his calling. He should have been a Christadelphian arranging brother. Except he's too young for the job.

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  10. Bit of a Trump man are you John??

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  11. I think what John is saying is that -- like many arranging brethren -- Biden appears to have been embalmed prematurely. He can't even read the teleprompter competently.

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  12. In 2016, if I remember rightly, Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump were the oldest pair of presidential candidates in US history. I wasn't sure that was a good idea. Fast forward to 2020, and Trump was of course four years older, so the Democrats fielded an even older candidate. I didn't and still don't know a lot about Biden, and clearly that was an election winning pitch (it helps when one of your key appeals to voters is "I'm different from the current president"), but I still wasn't sure it was a good idea.

    By the way, Paul, being critical of one leader doesn't necessarily mean supporting their opponent. The majority of my friends in the US would be left leaning, and I'd be fairly confident all of them voted for Biden in the last election and preferred him to Trump - but that doesn't stop them being critical of some of his words and actions, and nor should it.

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  13. But sometimes Jon it does in fact mean you do support there opponent. I'd like to know what John thinks of Trump since he seems to knock Biden??

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    1. Paul, John does not mention Trump in his comment, let alone indicate support. As I see it, he is simply making an ironic comparison between the image of Biden being presented by the right wing media, and the bumbling incompetence that we have all seen in aged or prematurely aged Christadelphian "leaders".
      To remind you, for clarity, I do not care who is leading America, or how they got to the position, or indeed anything else about the US. Also, I do not have a TV set so rely on non mainstream media, written material, and spoken word articles to form a view. That said, it is clear that right wing media are presenting Biden at his very worst. What is noticeable though, is that the dominant left wing media sources are saying nothing about his (and his deputy's) performance thus far, which does make me wonder. Either way, it is off topic but should be allowed to stay, and Bible In The News have had plenty to say recently about the Afghan situation which is inextricably linked with both Biden and Trump's decisions, I just haven't had time to fully digest what they are saying to make a meaningful comment.

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  14. Joesph, you are not telling me anything that is new. I dont know which media you are talking about. But i will pick on Cnn and Fox. Tv or not you can get plenty of news otherways , its the year 2021. The old saying about the media is they dont let the tuth in the way of a good story. You will know this well too. Cnn is never going knock Biden like Fox does on what ever he does or doesnt do. Aljazeera gives a more un-biased view of it. Espcially with the likes of the Afghan situation that you mention, a Hot Tpoic right now.

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  15. It hadn't even occurred to me that the events in Afghanistan might be part of the Signs of the Times. Though it probably helps that the ecclesia I belonged to put less stress on those signs than some.

    To me it's pretty simple: Those who wrote the Bible might have known about the existence of Afghanistan (though under different empires and with different borders and name). They didn't know anything about the existence of the US (or, for that matter, of Australia). And they didn't expect God's perfect plan to take another 2,000+ years. So to say that any of the prophecies apply to Afghanistan would be a stretch - but even if they did, why right now? Why not when the Soviet Union was involved with Afghanistan? Or the British Empire? Or some as yet unknown time 500 years from now? In my opinion, nothing about the prophecy enterprise as expounded by "signs of the times" experts makes any sense.

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  16. In the late 70s and through the 80s Pearce and Co had an awful lot to say in milestones about the afgan communist coup and subsequent war. It matters not what happens they will interpret anything as a sign that their Master is about to return. This is a 180 degree flip as the Communist regime was fighting rebels who morphed into the Taliban. In any case the situation there now is the same as it was 25 years ago.

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  17. My point was not political. I'd watched a nonsensical Biden speech and it took me back to my teenage years listening to nonsensical ramblings by geriatric Arranging Brethren pontificating on who we could marry and how we should view the "Gentiles" in the "evil" world around us and all sorts of other garbage. Why do humans believes total nonsense? Why do Trump supporters think that he won the election and that he will return to power soon? Why do Christadelphians think that their Trump-Jesus won the election over sin and that he will return to power soon? Neither idea makes any sense. Confirmation Bias is so strong in some people that they come to believe the most outlandish things. I've lost my interest in Christadelphians, but I'm still fascinated why people believe things that are so far removed from reality that they can only be described as conspiracy theories or cult like. I don't see the Christadelphians as a cult. They are a failed cult, like Pakistan and Afghanistan are failed States. They were a cult in the days of John Thomas, and Robert Roberts successfully took over as a second cult leader. But CC Walker and subsequent Christadelphian editors were so weak that the cult dissolved into something that was merely a petty religious sect riven with dissent. Now in the dotage of its existence it is away with the fairies, irrelevant, pointless, comical in its senility, riven with corruption in bogus African ecclesias whose members are mostly Pentecostals. It's good that Ex-Christadelphians make a mild effort to salvage Christadelphians from their religion. But I no longer see it as a priority. I felt good when I resigned from the Christadelphians in 1985, but I also felt good when I eventually resigned from the Ex-Christadelphians and finally dragged myself out of the swamp of all things poisoned by that religion that cursed me from my childhood. It does damage your mind. You have a sort of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Even when you become an Ex-Christadelphian you have not fully escaped. It is great that Ex-Christadelphians work to free their brethren from the religion. It is rather like the American airlift out of Kabul Airport rescuing people from the Taliban religious fundamentalists. But there comes a point where you have to walk up the ramp of the final flight to the Free World and leave the mess behind you. Start a new life. Close your ears to the screams coming from the Christadelphian Caliphate and do something else with your life. It is too dangerous to your mental health to continue the rescue effort. Wipe every last vestige and memory of Christadelphianism from your brain and be free at last. That's where I am now, and it is even better than being an Ex-Christadelphian.

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  18. One cannot be an ex-member of Auschwitz. And Auschwitz and its ilk manifest in many forms. If you can leave it all behind, great. Many of us -- perhaps those most scarred and damaged by our experiences -- drag the millstone behind us, whether we want to or not.

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    1. Oh I very much agree with you. I wish that I had never had a Christadelphian childhood, and I deeply regret the 19 years I spent in the religion. I still get PTSD from it. Support from other victims of Christadelphia is most valuable.

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  19. Here's a question: Has anyone explored the possibility of legal recourse? I was physically, emotionally, psychologically and sexually abused by two members of the group to which I belonged. The abuse was extreme. CD ecclesias operate independently of one another, and have little in the way of assets, but there are foundations and other organizational entities that could be sued. Has anyone done any research on this? To further complicate things, our group, while definitely originating in CDism, eventually drifted away from "mainstream" Christadelphianism, if such a thing can be said to exist. Nonetheless, our group's roots and doctrine were most closely related to CDism than anything else.

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    1. Dorothy, firstly, I'm sorry to hear that. You shouldn't have had to go through any of that.

      As to legal recourse, I imagine that would depend a lot on where you are. I don't know a lot about it, but here in Australia there has been a government victim redress scheme set up which institutions were supposed to sign up to. And last I heard I'm pretty sure most Christadelphian ecclesias here hadn't signed up to it.

      You mention the independence of ecclesias, and I would think that would make it difficult. Christadelphians have tended to stress ecclesial autonomy, and I don't think national organisations or foundations are likely to take responsibility for the actions of individuals or ecclesias not directly involved with that foundation (I don't keep up with Australian ecclesial doings, but I think I heard that was one of the sticking points with signing up to the redress scheme here - ecclesias didn't want to be held financially responsible for the wrongdoings of members of other ecclesias).

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    2. Breech of contract. You signed up for the Christadelphians because they offered you forgiveness of your sins and eternal life when Christ returned. You put your money into their collection bags and worked to get other people signed up for their scheme. But you later discovered that the whole thing was fraudulent like Theranos https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-58469882 Elizabeth Holmes is the new Dr John Thomas for the 21st Century. That all makes sense to me. Launch your legal case in the US and claim five billion dollars for your disappointment and mental distress as a result of not being able to live for eternity as promised in the original contract. (I'm joking.)

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  20. How about the grounds that the religion created so toxic an ideological brew that my abusers felt free to violate and injure me under cover of God's blessing? There are organizations with substantive financial holdings in the U.S. Why not seek to claim some of those funds as damages?

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    1. I'm not trying to tell you to do or not do anything. All I'm saying is that I would be surprised if any of those organisations would take responsibility for the abuse you suffered and offer redress. Whether a court would decide they bore responsibility I have no idea.

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