Israel PM meets Putin to discuss deeper military coordination - Christadelphians wrong AGAIN!

Netanyahu and Putin
December 2015
Israeli and Russian (Christadelphians call Russia "Gog") military officials are set to meet on Tuesday for talks on deepening the two countries’ coordination in Syria,  Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Monday, after talks with Vladimir Putin on the sidelines of the Paris climate conference. “I just had an important talk with Russian President Vladimir Putin. We agreed to deepen the coordination between us in order to prevent mishaps and to do so on a broad basis,” Netanyahu told reporters after their brief meeting. Click here for more. 

39 comments:

  1. You know my father was once a CD..im not going to mention names on here as i dont want to hurt other family memenbers who do hold very dearly to these beleifs on Russia. He left it, one of the reasons was the Russia thing. I remeber him saying one saturday afternoon after he had thrown in the towel to another CD in the room.. you must be cracked in the head if you think its Russia..... he has been gone 6 years now ... but i tell you he was dead right. No one has a clue,,,,

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  2. We know that Russia will come down to an Israel that is undefended, it says so in Ezekiel :

    And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates.

    A period of peace although short is necessary. Just look at the surprise of the nations later in Ezekiel :

    ‘Have you come to take plunder? Have you gathered your army to take booty, to carry away silver and gold, to take away livestock and goods, to take great plunder?’

    It definitely reads that the attack is unsuspected. I feel that Russia may stabilize the middle east in the name of "anti-terror" occupying and taking much of the land but briefly stopping at the borders of Israel, then breaking its peace treaties that im sure will be made, will then come down like a whirlwind through Israel and through Egypt.

    Articles like this make me excited to see how everything will fit together. I know this site is about disproving CD's and Im the first to admin i have been wrong about much of the things I thought would happen, I could be wrong about my prediction above.

    One thing im 100% right about it my worship of the one true god, the father of Abraham Issac and Israel, I fear his holy name.

    Although CD's predictions are guesses as to what will happen - certain parts are fact because we are told in scriptures. The bits we aren't told, we try to fit around the bits we are told, I think that being dogmatic about such things is wrong, and something that CD's as a whole should try to stay away from UNLESS fully backed up by scripture. Its not Scripture thats wrong, its our fitting it around current events thats wrong. We jump the gun too much, god works on a different timescale to us.

    Writers of this website, please consider your position at the time of judgment, if you dont have faith now, just keep your mind open as you experience world events happen. Search out the scriptures to see if these things be so. Don't believe what other CDS tell you - figure it out yourselves.

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    1. Ezekiel's prophecies in chapters 38 & 39 do not predict any sort of war between Russia and Israel, or Russia and the West. Ezekiel predicts that the Northern invader will come into the Middle East to threaten Israel but will be destroyed by God before they can do any harm.

      Ezekiel chapters 36 - 39 are failed prophecies of what would happen when the Hebrews in exile in Babylon returned to the land of Israel. They did return under Cyrus the Great, but all of the rest of Ezekiel's prophecies failed. There saw no new "spirit" and "heart" in the Jews, there was no Northern invasion, no king David ruling over them and no temple of the sort predicted in Ezekiel chapters 40 onward.

      None of it happened and there is not the slightest indication of a fulfillment two and a half thousand years later. It is all just wishful thinking and delusion on the part of the Christadelphians.

      When this all blows over, which it will, you will hear an almighty "we told you so" from the Ex-Christadelphians.

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    2. //We know that Russia will come down to an Israel that is undefended, it says so in Ezekiel //
      (emphasis mine)

      No. No it doesn't.

      Have a look at the NET Bible. It has a footnote next to Ezekiel 38:2 which says:
      "Heb “the prince, the chief of Meshech and Tubal.” Some translate “the prince of Rosh, Meshech and Tubal,” but it is more likely that the Hebrew noun in question is a common noun in apposition to “prince,” rather than a proper name. See D. I. Block, Ezekiel (NICOT), 2:434-35. As Block demonstrates, attempts by some popular writers to identify these proper names with later geographical sites in Russia are anachronistic. See as well E. Yamauchi, Foes From the Northern Frontier, 19-27."

      //And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates.//

      It's interesting that you'd use a quote that specifically says "unwalled villages" and you think that is referring to a modern city that has both walls and gates. If a verse can say the exact opposite of reality and still be considered a fulfilled prophecy, one wonders what it would need to say in order to be considered a failed prophecy!

      Also, your earlier comment. You referred to Israel as being "undefended". You know, probably one of the most heavily defended nations on the planet, but maybe it's opposites day today...

      //It definitely reads that the attack is unsuspected.//

      As most attacks are.

      //I think that being dogmatic about such things is wrong, and something that CD's as a whole should try to stay away from UNLESS fully backed up by scripture//

      Perhaps you should heed your own advice.

      //Its not Scripture thats wrong, its our fitting it around current events thats wrong.//

      Well that sure is convenient, isn't it?

      I reckon that argument would work for just about anything. That's why truth doesn't work that way. It's your job to show that scripture is right. Until then, have fun reading exactly what you want into ancient texts and pretending you're not just fooling yourself...

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  3. Anon, just because something was written in an ancient storybook does not make it a fact. Several proclamations by Ezekiel have failed to materialize, and the others are wide open to interpretation by gullible readers. Much like a horoscope in a tabloid newspaper, it is easy to make the so called prophesies fit whatever you want them too.

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  4. I will respectfully disagree with all your comments! Fulfilled prophesies have been fulfilled with astounding accuracy, and the rest are unfulfilled, but I don't think we will ever agree on this .You have made up your mind, and I mine, I am confused at how we have looked at the same evidence and come to different conclusions when it seems so obvious to me.

    When this all blows over, which it will, you will hear an almighty "we told you so" from the Ex-Christadelphians.

    I will respectfully withdraw from commenting further on this site, it seems that it is your minds that are closed, and you are trying to vindicate your position as lost sheep.

    I will not be drawn into a discussion so that you can call me gullible, deluded, and wish to prove me wrong. Discussion should be on the facts with open minds. It seems obvious this cannot be done as you have lost faith even in the validity of scripture and the God it teaches us about.

    When you see a Temporary Peace in Jerusalem think of the thief on the cross and consider your position at judgment.

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    1. Ezekiel does NOT predict a "temporary peace" he predicts a permanent peace when the Jews returned to the land of Israel, a peace that not even the Gogian confederacy can upset. He does not predict the taking of Jerusalem or anything like that. The whole point of his prophecy is that by destroying Gog God will validate himself to Israel and to the World.

      7 "So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD" - Ezekiel 39:7

      You are making stuff up that is not in the Bible. The prophecies in the Bible did not and will not come true. There is even less chance that the stuff you are inventing in your own head is going to come true.

      Ezekiel contradicts Zechariah 12 and they both contradict Daniel 11:40 onwards. They can't be harmonised because they are just fake prophecies written by humans with no divine assistance.

      You Christadelphians suffer from a bad case of apophenia. You see patterns in random happenings in the Middle East and think that they confirm Bible prophecy. You have done it for 175 years and made innumerable mistakes in your predictions.

      I did it thirty years ago when I was a Christadelphian. But now I realise that I was just being an ass.

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    2. //Fulfilled prophesies have been fulfilled with astounding accuracy//

      Really? Please elaborate...

      //I am confused at how we have looked at the same evidence and come to different conclusions when it seems so obvious to me.//

      Ditto.

      //You have made up your mind, and I mine//
      //Discussion should be on the facts with open minds.//

      Well, that's awkward.

      //I will not be drawn into a discussion so that you can call me gullible, deluded, and wish to prove me wrong.//

      Oh, come now. Why would anyone call you that? We'd only do that if you were making claims without any basis in reality and without any real evidence to back them up... oh wait!

      //you have lost faith even in the validity of scripture and the God it teaches us about.//

      That's the funny thing about claims without evidence. At some point one has to ask themselves why they believe it.

      //When you see a Temporary Peace in Jerusalem think of the thief on the cross and consider your position at judgment.//

      I don't understand how you can have Israel at war or at peace and in both cases claim it fits your prophecy. Something is wrong with this picture.

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    3. Anon,
      "It seems obvious this cannot be done as you have lost faith even in the validity of scripture and the God it teaches us about."

      What does Ezekiel teach us about the God you worship? Well in 4:12-15 It teaches us that the creator of the universe wished to degrade his creation by having him cook his food over burning human excrement, in public.
      What exactly do YOU do to worship this God?

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  5. Hi All, I just wanted to say not all Christadelphians are dogmatic about prophesy and allot of what I have read on this site saddens me greatly. Not all Christadelphians believe we are the only ones with knowledge of Gods word....I personally think anyone who reads the bible and follows the commandments of Christ may be welcomed into Gods Kingdom....that's for Christ to judge. We don't all walk around with murder in our hearts (as mentioned on this site), we don't shun our children if they don't decide to be baptised and many of us are just trying to do our best to live in the example Christ set for us to follow.....is that a bad thing? To love your enemy, to care for your neighbours, the sick, the poor etc?
    Do we want to see the return of Christ? Yes we do, so all the horrible things going on in the world will cease.
    I don't know what caused you to be so angry towards Gods word and your brothers & sisters John....maybe you did have some bad experiences and I'm truly sorry for that. Have brothers and sisters done the wrong thing before? Do they sometimes read things into prophesy that may not be correct? Of course they do and have because we are all just people. Some of us have put our faith in God....no cult, just faith in God that he will not be slack concerning his promise.
    Take Care

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    1. Ron, I can't speak for John.
      For me, my brothers and sisters have been great to me.
      Nothing wrong with trying to follow the example of Jesus.
      But it has absolutely nothing to do with whether the Bible is true or God exists. What ex-Christadelphians on this site have repeatedly said is that they can't find evidence for this.

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    2. //we don't shun our children if they don't decide to be baptised and many of us are just trying to do our best to live in the example Christ set for us to follow.....is that a bad thing? To love your enemy, to care for your neighbours, the sick, the poor etc?//

      Nothing wrong with that if it's what you want to do.

      I personally think it's a bit unhealthy to live your life patterned entirely on someone else's or to insist that any one person's life should be good enough for everyone to follow.

      To be a little bit nit-picky, there is no evidence that Jesus ever cared for his neighbour, or the poor. All we have is stories claiming he said those things, but even the stories don't claim he actually did them. I see the stories as, well, stories. They may have some basis in a real historical character, but to what extent we may never know. The writers make no secret of the fact that they had theological motives (John 20:31)

      Perhaps you could claim that he healed the sick, but when you have unlimited magic powers, healing the sick is hardly a great effort or sacrifice. He required none of the qualities or years of study that doctors and nurses need to master today in order to heal the sick. Likewise for feeding people using magic. How is that an example to follow? Is there any good deed that Jesus ever did for anyone, that did not involve magic?

      The gospels also suggest that Jesus did miracles to further his own cause (John 14:11 - not that I believe any miracles were actually done - I'm just saying the example is not necessarily one of altruism).

      It seems to me that the ideals that were placed in the mouth of Jesus came from humans, and you will find similar ideals in other writings, some earlier than Jesus. The golden rule for example, was very well articulated by Confucius: "What you do not wish for yourself, do not do to others".

      Did Jesus love his enemies? The gospels say he spoke these words, but if my memory serves me correctly, there is no act of love that Jesus actually demonstrated towards his enemies. Perhaps you could say that he used the 'non-violence' principle as an act of love? I don't know.

      Of course, Christians claim that Jesus died as an act of love for the world (which would include any enemies he had by definition I guess). But that implies firstly that everything he claimed was true (otherwise where was the love?), and secondly that he could not have provided more benefit to people had he lived a full life.

      On Jesus' death, some claim he gave the ultimate sacrifice, but if he somehow "knew" he would be raised, then it would seem that Jesus merely endured a pretty crappy weekend for our sins. There are many people who have suffered far worse than Jesus. Not only that, but he had several warnings that he was heading down a path that would get him in trouble with the Roman authorities. He was perhaps not the hapless victim the story paints him to be.

      If one truly wanted to follow Jesus, it seems one must add martyrdom to the list of virtues of this "good life", something I personally would certainly not endorse. Also, if you take John 2:15 as actual history, Jesus was prepared to do violence to others, or at least threaten violence, in order to pursue his cause. Is that morally justified? Again I cannot endorse such behaviour.

      If I may be a little bold, it seems to me that what you see as "following Jesus" is actually heavily influenced by modern western values and altruism. Many of these values are common to all of us, and have more to do with humanity and modern society than specifically what you read in this ancient book.

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    3. //Do we want to see the return of Christ? Yes we do, so all the horrible things going on in the world will cease.//

      Again, no real issue there, unless your beliefs encourage complacency now. If you believe in a future fixer-upper coming to solve all of our problems, and thus you do nothing about current issues such as climate change and helping those less fortunate, then your beliefs may actually be harmful to society.

      //no cult//

      If people are not free to leave, then it's sounding close to a cult. Now of course in some places it is probably true that Christadelphians can leave on their own terms, but sadly that is not the case for most Christadelphian ecclesias I know.

      Ron, all in all it sounds like you're a reasonable human being and I'd probably have no issue with how you choose to live, so long as you give the same freedoms to others that you yourself enjoy.

      If all Christadelphians were like that, perhaps those of us who questioned our beliefs and found them wanting could have moved on a lot easier, and perhaps even have remained part of the community socially, dare I even suggest it. Do you think there is room for positive change within the community to move in that direction? I don't see it in the community I left.

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  6. Hi Steve

    Thank you for your comments. This will be my last post as I don't think it's the most healthy way for me to spend my time (not having a go at you guys).
    The reason I came on here is that I couldn't believe some of the generalisations that John was writing about Christadelphians - some of which were extremely unfair and in many cases just not true.
    I may question some 'Christadelphian-isms' but I never question God's word....you may think that unhealthy and thats ok, but thats my choice. As we all have free will to make our own decisions - at least in the countries we are in at the moment, many others are not so fortunate.
    Have Christadelphians got some things wrong over the years? Yes of course we have. Did Brother Thomas get somethings wrong? Yes and it's easy to see where he did. But is John Thomas or Robert Roberts our spiritual leaders? No - the bible is our leader/instructor and should always be as it teaches us God's plan and purpose with this Earth. Brothers both now and in the past have got things wrong, sometimes it's due to there dedication and love for the Truth that they get 'a little excited' and may even stray from things 'that we just don't know'. My belief is that it doesn't matter what you are (the name means very little) if you are not following the example that Christ left us to follow - which is a massive job in itself.
    I am only a 'Christadelphian' due to the fact that they follow the bible and have doctrines that I agree with....all the rest is just the 'human' side that occurs when a bunch of people get together i.e. some want hymns, some want modern music, some want you to wear ties, some want lunch at 12 etc. But none of that would matter if we followed Christ's example.
    I am just thankful that God gave us all free will - it's up to us what we want to do with it. If someone wants to believe it took billions of years for us to get to where we are today then that's there choice. If others wish to believe that God created us and are happy to put there faith in the bible then that should also be there choice - neither side has any reason to cast stones at each other....hence why I don't believe debates on the topic really do much for either cause.
    I understand this is probably not what you want to hear but I pray for all brothers and sisters who have lost there faith. And so I pray for you Steve that if one day science doesn't give you what you are looking for then you may turn back to God..which is another example of God's love towards in that we can always seek repentance.

    Take Care Brother

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    1. Why on Earth should we repent? It is you Ron who are trapped in a fundamentalist religious sect, not us.

      We are well balanced, rational, enlightened, normal people. You are the one who believes in magic and invisible angels watching what humans are doing.

      Demanding "Repentance" from us because we escaped a cult is a dysfunctional way of thinking. Rather we should be telling you to come to your senses and only believe in things that have credible evidence.

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    2. Ron, you said a lot of words but didn't answer anything I posted. Why not?

      You even repeated your thing about "following the example that Christ left us to follow", but if you read my comments you'd realise that you are essentially equating "what Jesus (apparently) said" with what he actually did. But there is no evidence that Jesus ever practiced what he preached. I didn't see anything from you that suggested you also endorse martyrdom or threatening people with violence, both things that Jesus did.

      //I understand this is probably not what you want to hear//

      It's not what I want to hear simply because you didn't actually respond to anything I wrote. I'm not challenged by what you wrote in any way. I find it weird that you seemed to think I would be.

      //I pray for all brothers and sisters who have lost there faith//

      How's that working out for you?

      //And so I pray for you Steve that if one day science doesn't give you what you are looking for then you may turn back to God//

      I don't really know what that is supposed to mean. This makes very little sense to me. Science is not a replacement for God, and neither is God a replacement for science.

      I think your comment says more about you than me. All I really care about is that my beliefs align with reality, and that means building in mechanisms to be able to rule out false positives. I see no benefit in believing anything for which there is no evidence and where I could be fooling myself with no way to know.

      I don't know what "God" even is, or what the word means. What would I be turning back to? I left after realising that I had no good reason to believe. Thus the only reason to "turn back" to anything would be to suddenly come across a good reason to believe. I will not hold my breath waiting for that...

      I find it really strange that you would suggest I might turn my back on reason and once again embrace gullibility.

      Again, I think your comments say a lot about you. Especially the part where you think belief is a personal choice.

      It would seem that you do not believe based on evidence, but rather based on credulity. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

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    3. //neither side has any reason to cast stones at each other//

      Suppose you had wasted the best part of your prime years being indoctrinated and devoting your life to stuff you later found out to be a huge waste of time (not to mention psychologically harmful), and you also learned that the vast majority of those who taught you had never seriously questioned it themselves...

      No reason to cast stones? I disagree. The indoctrination still continues against children who are too young to realise that people are lying to them, or that those who teach them have not done their homework.

      I suffered depression through my teen years largely due to feeling unable to meet the demands placed on my by the religion and its leaders. That's not the reason I ultimately left, but it is one reason why I feel compelled to help others reason their way out.

      It's not just children and young people either. How many people would continue trying to meet the demands of their religious leaders if they had a better alternative? I am offering that alternative. If you knew the religion was false, or at least dubious, what kind of life would YOU choose to live? Many Christadelphians have never even considered that question. I find that extremely disturbing.

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    4. The Scinece doesnt lie.... This doesnt disprove or prove if supernatural things are true.. but when we test things with euquipment .. eg say a muti meter to test current.. it is what it is... no matter who or what thinks...so i think the comment on the scinece doesnt give you what you want is a bit of a low blow.

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    5. Ron,
      It's a shame you are leaving us, but not unexpected. In the two and a half years I have been here only a couple of Christadelphians have ever stayed. You strike me as a person who has little real faith, and I've met a good few like that. Unfortunately the "generalizations" you talk of, do have a basis in fact. The real reason you won't stay is that you know that science and common sense always shines through whereas superstition just makes you look daft. If you turned up at the Swanwick Bible School with your attitude to the pioneers teachings, you would BOOTED OUT! It must be an embarrassment that Ex-Christadelphians can argue you into a corner that you cannot answer from, but as I said, it is to be expected.
      Just one question for you, before you leave us. If the good samaritan had walked past on the other side, but prayed real hard, would the outcome have been the same?

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    6. Joe, I have some sympathies with Ron on this, since some of the points he made I have made on this blog over the last few years. I think his position on the pioneers would be the majority position in my part of the world. It matches mine. Frequently John has made assertions about how the ecclesial world works which don't match my experience - some I have responded to, some I haven't. I'm not doubting they are true, just how widely they apply. John has a way of writing that sometimes makes it seem like "I know of a few Christadelphians who have done X, so they must all have either done it or wanted to do it". Probably not helped by the biased sample I suspect he is dealing with: a mix of those who have left with bitterness (often for good reason), and religious zealots. I doubt the majority is like either of those two camps.

      To me, the killer isn't views on the pioneers or objecting to some of John's generalisations. (I share those views).
      It's the "I never question God's word".
      As John has quoted before from JT: "Investigate everything you believe - if it is the truth it cannot be injured; if error, the sooner it is corrected the better. Never be afraid of results to which you may be driven by your investigations, as this will inevitably bias your mind and disqualify you to arrive at ultimate truth."
      That is uncomfortable for a life-long believer. But if it was a search for truth, both sides would have a reason to argue for what is actually right (not just what they would like to think is right). If it's a search for mutual comfort, then sure, "neither side has any reason to cast stones at each other". But that view goes perilously close to the post-modern relativism frequently condemned in Christadelphian circles.
      (I surprise myself sometimes with the strength of my current feelings on "Let's look for truth, not comfort").

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    7. A little excited, yes they were when Saddam send few scud missiles to Israel, now CD's are extremely excited. CD pamphlet states: " Russia in Syria the Bible predicts the final outcome "it continues: will Russia be the answer to the conflict in the Middle East? Come and hear a free Bible presentation on what the Bible predicts the final outcome for the Middle East will be. How will the conflict be stopped and who will bring peace and stability to the area. Well, excited they are again, and from one meeting to another they run, guessing game goes on.

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    8. When they claim "the bible" predicts this or that, what they really mean is that they predict it based on their interpretation of the bible. That's all. Why should we listen to them (over anyone else)? They never answer that one. They are not experts. They are not an authority.

      They claim they have the truth. That's nice. So does every other religion. I wonder what they'd say if they were lying...

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    9. Steve, every time I questioned a CD regarding their interpretation of the Bible verses, they said " because we know " actually some said that CD's were chosen by God, because they were able to interpret and understand the Bible correctly and there was no salvation outside of CD's, they had that aura of superiority of understanding the Bible and regardless what I said they were always correct. Some believed that John Thomas was moved by Gods spirit to rediscover the truth all by himself and the rest of the believers were to perish, when I used to attend their lectures, it was this thing about how good CD's were in knowledge, all I have found was that they knew the Bible like parrots, could spit out the Bible verses like there was no tomorrow, but that did not make them experts, I did point out so many failed predictions to them but that did not bothered them, everyone makes "mistakes" they would say. Middle East and Russia is their issue, Gog and Magog, watch these events with hawks eyes and come up that " Jesus is about to return ". Yes they claim that they alone have the truth.

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    10. //Some believed that John Thomas was moved by Gods spirit to rediscover the truth all by himself and the rest of the believers were to perish//

      ...and yet they are happy to worship this god and don't find the prospect of living forever with him absolutely terrifying...

      //all I have found was that they knew the Bible like parrots//

      Yes. An excellent analogy.

      //I did point out so many failed predictions to them but that did not bothered them, everyone makes "mistakes" they would say. //

      So true. But in saying this, they openly admit that they are not searching for truth. If they were searching for truth, they'd be very critical of their own beliefs so as to weed out errors.

      //Middle East and Russia is their issue, Gog and Magog, watch these events with hawks eyes//

      I am beginning to see that "end-times prophecy" is the drug many Christadelphians are addicted to. Every time something happens in the Middle East, they get excited and then become hungrier for their next "fix". They are not bothered by failures, because they reinterpret everything through the view that the Bible is always right, so therefore there are no failures. Every event is seen as a step towards the "big one", no matter how unrelated or contradictory it really is.

      Once someone falls prey to end-times addiction, I don't really know how to reach them. Reason won't work, just like it won't work with other addicts.

      Perhaps there should be a 12-step program for CDs addicted to prophecy...

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    11. End times is an addiction.... no doubt about that,after one event they look for another to get them back on the big high. Like other religions,all about the next service to get back up on that big high again.Yes again its an addiction.All these miracle and other wonders need to be checked by the science, not just what is in your head.. the american cancer society has a great article on such things. Once again it just states facts,hard core scientific facts.It also does not set out to disprove or prove anything.

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    12. Paul, on this occasion, I have to disagree with you. My time as a Christadelphian accounted for only 10 years out of a religious life of over 40 years. Most religions/denominations, do NOT suffer from prophecy addiction. Sadly our former brethren and sisters do, primarily because their works based salvation has very little to offer them in the here and now, it is all a "promise" of future things. Their wanting the next "high" is easily explained, for the addicted christadelphian, pretty much any activity in the middle east will stimulate dopamine release in their brains (the same way it does for a compulsive gambler), when egged on by other in the truth, the effect will be multiplied. It's like playing the lottery or the bingo, a few small wins are enough to keep you chasing the big one. A little under 2% of gamblers get addicted, due to genetic make up. I see no reason that the same can't be applied to prophecy addicts.

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    13. Joeseph.. yes i agree Not all suffer from profecy addiction.. but what i was trying to get at is that there is a lot of mental stimulation with religion.
      I reckon the same high that people get on with it , is exacly the same feeling other people might get from something worldly that they enjoy.When its checked by science it just doesnt test out...whatever demonination you are in. This deosnt mean there is nothing there... but i dont think any of us including you.. have any idea if our ideas on it all are correct.It is not historical fact,eye witness fact when you really did into it. I will admit, i thought it was until a few years ago...i can tell you that same feeling that they get from profecy addiction.. is the same high other demoniations get from up-beat religoius music.. just watch tv and you will see people crying, falling down , jumping around... its no different to a rock concert..

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  7. what has always got me is this...... how come years ago did people die of sickness etc.. when scinece discovered drugs etc.. it has saved many many people.... ..you have been given a mind etc lots of those people would have lived out good lives if they lived in our time. im not saying there is nothing there, but the proof is in the pudding.... i think its up too us!

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    1. Exactly. If Jesus was the son of God, then he had a golden opportunity to receive wisdom from God and teach everyone about things that would benefit humanity greatly. For example energy production, transport, health, etc.

      But instead of teaching modern medicine and saving many thousands of lives, he chose to repeat the same garbage about disease being caused by demons.

      The simplest and best explanation is that Jesus didn't know any better than those around him, and had no access to any "higher" knowledge.

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    2. Jesus told people nothing that humanity did not already know at the time. His moral and ethical teaching was all reworked material from bygone ages. His prophecies of his early return to Earth were proved by history to be false. There is no credible evidence for his resurrection other than the highly contradictory accounts in the gospels and by Paul in 1 Corinthians ch.15. Nowhere else in the Bible do we find so many obvious contradictions packed into so few verses. The reasons for the contradictions is that humans were inventing the story and they invented it in many different and contradictory ways.

      We cannot even be certain if there ever was a Jesus, although it does seem likely that there was an original Jesus character and his followers added the miracle stories and the resurrection myth.

      Religions are intended for the gullible and the naïve. The smart people sit back and laugh at the delusion and the bizarre behaviour of the adherents. They watch all of the thousands of religions tearing each other apart and shake their heads in disbelief that humans could act so foolishly.

      Delete
  8. "Saudi Arabia cuts diplomatic ties with Iran after Nimr execution"
    The Guardian newspaper Uk

    King of the South/King of the North alignment?

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    Replies
    1. No, that would make them King of the East vs. King of the South.

      More likely the Bible is predicting a break in diplomatic relations between Finland and South Africa. That would definitely be a King of the North/King of the South alignment. :)

      Alternatively scientists working at the North Pole might have a disagreement with scientists working at the South Pole. Have you though about that scenario? :)

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    2. John, as you rightly point out, any scenario can be envisaged with enthusiastic imagination from snatches of biblical text. Someone might even find a verse which shows that Poland will claim both North and South Poles as being their Pole Land.

      Delete
    3. Here we go again,R U for real Paul S. really...when R U lot going to stop this...

      Delete
  9. I'm pretty sure that by the time the week is up, either Bible in the news or Andy Walton will have pointed out that this is what "students" has been expecting, and will enlighten us as to have it "fits in" with God's plan....

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    Replies
    1. And sure enough, as my alter ego predicted, Bible in the news did just that, on 10th Jan confirming that as they and John Thomas expected, the Saudis and the UK are a king of the south alighnment.....yawn...

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    2. Why not just wait and see.... every time something happens... no one from any religion has any clue what the future holds.. they also have no clue how we all got here.... and infact all the people on this website have no clue either.. how we got here.But at least they dont have the grand preditions..

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  10. Jesus said that not one jot or tittle would pass from the Law until all (the law and prophets) be fulfilled. In fact, the whole of the NT is based on the law and prophets having been fulfilled. Otherwise, the words of Paul about the law being done away and that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law means nothing.

    Never mind that James and John don't seem to agree with Paul about the law in their epistles, either Jesus fulfilled the 'law and prophets, or he did not. If not, then Christadelphians need to keep the Sabbath and Holy Days of the OT and show their faith by the works of the law as says James and John.

    ReplyDelete

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