An email from a Christadelphian reader

"I would rather
have my faith -
even if it is wrong"
By Mary Magdalene

Dear John: I hope that Christadelphian interpretation of Bible prophecy is right because the world has gone mad over here, hundreds of thousands of Muslims invading Europe whose religion has the aim is to convert non Muslims or wipe them out, fear of terrorist attacks etc.a ''time of trouble '' springs to mind. 


With reference to Russia I remember you saying some years ago when Russia became less of a military power that Russia was no longer a threat to Israel, yet we now see it's military build up in Syria, Putin having a meeting with the leader of Iran this week and ISIS, Hezbollah etc.with the  declared aim to wipe out Israel and now these attacks in Europe drawing other nations into the conflict with the backing of the UN.

Looking back  a hundred and fifty years ago Russia was only a group of tribes, the warfare described in Zechariah 14 was unheard of, or Israel being re-gathered back to the land as a nation, oil being found in Israel, the coming together of Arab tribes as an enemy of Israel or all nations being gathered together into a conflict in the region. With world wide communication in minutes facilitating terrorism. It will be interesting to see what happens. Personally I would rather have my faith as I gives me a reason for these things happening and a belief that there will be an end to this escalating madness, even if it is wrong, than to have no faith or a belief that things will get better on there  own.

I know that you disagree with what the Christadelphians believe but I do not understand why you have to keep writing about it. If I left because I no longer agreed with their teachings I would not need to do this. Why do you do it? I am not even sure what you actually do believe now. 

With best regards

Mary Magdalene

25 comments:

  1. Where does one begin to answer something like that? I don't think that I have ever read such a short email from a Christadelphian that contained so many glaring mistakes.

    Her comment:

    "Personally I would rather have my faith as I gives me a reason for these things happening and a belief that there will be an end to this escalating madness, even if it is wrong, than to have no faith or a belief that things will get better on their own."

    - Is an open admission that she prefers superstition over reality.

    It confirms what we Ex-Christadelphians have always said, that Christadelphianism is a culture, and not a serious attempt to discover the truth about anything. There is no point debating with people who merely want to be comforted by what they believe and care nothing that it may not have anything to do with actual reality.

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  2. You have to turn your back on it John. I guess this person is in the UK as there are but a few Christadelphians in the rest of Europe. She only demonstrates once more how poor education disables the Christadelphian mind to reason. To all but an inculcated thinker, the world has not gone mad, it is just having some troubles that will, in due time be sorted out. As a child I lived in fear of nuclear attack from the Eastern Bloc, walking into East Germany in 1989, I knew that the threat had passed. This summer, my daughter and I wandered along the train tracks at Auschwitz and I thought how clear it was that things actually are better now, unless some strange religious thinking has gripped your mind and you are looking for the next doom-laden forecast to come true.
    Christadelphians look for fulfillment of what they believe simply so that they can wag their fingers at the rest of us and say "told you so". There is nothing more to it than a defence of their own foolishness. Debating them simply gives respect where none is due.

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  3. Turkey has shot down a Russian plane...... so they arent on the same side at the moment...arent they meant to be Togarmah.. Joining the King of the north...??? Also there are hints thats the Russis may scrap that war.. Syria... the costs are something they can afford according to articles on the net...No one really knows.

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    1. That's a great point Paul! According to Christadelphian interpretation of Ezekiel 38/39 Togarmah has just shot down one of Gog's fighter jets. The Christadelphian "Northern Alliance" is coming apart already. :)

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    2. Dear Mary M.
      You seem to be deluded to the fact that there have rarely been times throughout history when there has not been somewhere or other a "time of trouble" which has been seen to those suffering it to be like nothing before. Sometimes it has seemed to those who were believers in biblical prophecies (so called) to be the time of the end to herald the "last days". Even as far back as Michel Eyquem de Montaigne (1533-92) there was a time of trouble so severe that both Catholics and Protestants believed the end would come "within weeks". When Rome sacked Jerusalem, wasn`t this a "time of touble" when the Christians expected the early return of Jesus, which of course didn`t happen, and led to some of the thoughts expressed in various Pauline letters (and letters in his name which we know now to have not been written by him) to try to explain the delay. Are you not, Mary M, guilty of living with a kind of intellectual dishonesty which enables you to be happy with your belief when you say "I would rather have my faith" . . ." even if it is wrong?" That is not faith. It is superstition. I wish you well.

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  4. My faith in God does not depend on Bible prophecies or on what has or has not happened to me in life, when I look around at the world and see it's complexity I find it more difficult not to believe in Him and I think that it takes as much faith not to believe as to believe.

    I don't know whether you have seen the recent discovery that their is a huge amount of water deep down in the earths core some estimate it is more than that is in the oceans above, Genesis 1 verse 6? Live Science. What is also interesting is that they think that they have found the site of Sodom, Popular Archaeology.

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    1. That's fine, Mary.
      Just realise that there is a gap between "the world is complex, so there must be a designer" and "that designer must be the God revealed in the Bible".

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    2. //I find it more difficult not to believe in Him and I think that it takes as much faith not to believe as to believe.//

      Firstly, why do you capitalise "Him"? Even the Bible doesn't do this.

      Secondly, a lack of belief does not require faith. What you missed is that it takes no faith at all to start out as agnostic and simply follow the evidence. Further, if the Bible describes God as an all-loving, omniscient, omnipotent being, and yet the Bible also describes God making mistakes and having regrets (Genesis 6:6) and further yet we see horrific natural disasters killing millions of children and families despite many people praying for God to save them, then that counts as evidence that either God doesn't exist, or the biblical description of God is wrong. Take your pick.

      Complexity does not require a designer. Snowflakes are complex, but we know they are formed by natural processes. God does not sit there designing each one. Same with crystals.

      As for there being water below the earth's crust, how does that confirm Genesis 1 verse 6?

      I find it rather intriguing that you'd gloss over the thousands of scientific discoveries disconfirming the Genesis 1 account and latch onto one that seems to fit your preferred model.

      As for the claim to have found Sodom. Firstly, it wouldn't be a surprise to find an actual city with that name. That wouldn't in itself prove that anything said about it was actually true.

      Here's the article I think you're referring to:
      http://popular-archaeology.com/issue/june-2013/article/possible-site-of-ancient-sodom-yields-more-finds

      If I may make one little comment that might dampen your excitement...

      From the article:
      "It is, first and foremost, the story of an ancient people who built a massive Bronze Age city that thrived and prospered in a place strategically located among key water resources and trade routes, emerging as the central hub of a dominant city-state during the Early and Middle Bronze Ages (between 3500 and 1540 B.C.)."

      Abraham was supposed to have lived and died in that period, and yet the city somehow didn't disappear like the Bible said. Interesting, no?

      2 Peter 2:6 says God burned Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes. Yet I don't read anything about that in the Popular Archaeology article. Strange.

      I'm not saying it didn't happen. Maybe it did. It's just that you seem a little too eager to jump on the "Bible confirmed by science" bandwagon without surveying all of the evidence.

      Perhaps what is more important is why you feel you need that level of confirmation. Once upon a time the Bible held more authority than science. Now it seems science has won that battle. Think about that.

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    3. Yes, curious about that Genesis 1:6 claim too. My kids came back from Sunday School recently having been shown a video about that water source, only they had been taught that it was the water supply for the flood. Well done Steve, nice reply. Christadelphians rely on secular science to "prove" the Bible. Oh they of little faith!

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    4. I'm not a geologist, but I don't see how the geology of the Earth could have remained intact if all that underground water suddenly became above-ground. Also, the temperature of such water would be extremely high I would imagine.

      I'd love to hear a geologist comment on that.

      Not that that's the most absurd thing about the story. There's a whole lot more that's still wrong with it.

      I'm just curious what the scientific response would be.

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    5. I know there is an ocean underneath the earth's surface because Journey to the Centre of the Earth says so. Fortunately science has finally caught up with science fiction.

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  5. Mary, but you quoted about Russia.....that is a conformation.... of your take on it...

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    1. I was brought up as Christadelphian pumped full of Russia as "Gog of the North" professes BUT NOTHING ABOUT MUSLIM ISIS
      My beliefs now are that ever day we come one day closer to Christ's return but NOT to Christadelphians time plan " Christ has died Christ has risen Christ will come again"

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    2. Anony: You say "Christ has risen" but that is a belief, not an established fact. There is no credible evidence of any kind that Christ rose from the dead.

      The only kind of evidence for the resurrection of Christ is the sort of flimsy evidence that only a person wanting to believe it would believe. That is about the worst possible way of proving anything. That is self deception served up on a silver platter.

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  6. The answer to Mary's comment:

    " I am not even sure what you actually do believe now. "

    - is that I don't "believe" anything at all. I don't belong to a faith based religion so there is no need for me to "believe" anything.

    I suspect that something akin to the Theory of Evolution is correct, even if many more details remain to be worked out. But I don't "believe" it as some sort of religious doctrine. I accept the discoveries of science, human understanding and modern technology, but I also realise that these things are all a work in progress and as new developments arise I know that I might need to modify or even abandon things that I now assume are correct.

    None of this worries me at all. As Richard Feynman said:

    "I would rather have questions that cannot be answered, than answers that cannot be questioned."

    It is the doctrinaire nature of Christadelphian belief that has blinded them to truth. Instead of taking the road to truth, they have seized on a set of man-made doctrines that cannot be questioned and inherited all of the error and mistakes that those men included in their beliefs.

    Christadelphians are mistaken to think that they hold "the Truth." They don't even know the correct way to search for truth and they most certainly have not found it. They have ended up as a lunatic fringe cult sect believing ridiculous things that are irrelevant to human development, enlightenment and understanding.

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  7. "The world has gone mad over here, hundreds of thousands of Muslims invading Europe whose religion has the aim is to convert non Muslims or wipe them out"

    Why has no one addressed this barbaric statement?

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    1. I agree with you that it is a strongly worded racist comment and is to be condemned. But we are so used to the xenophobia of Christadelphians that comments like that we often don't even bother to address such issues. Perhaps you would like to have a go for us.

      Personally I think that migrant Syrian refugees should be vetted and then offered support and compassion. Perhaps one day we can return them to their own land when peace is established. The West stirred up the troubles in Syria by supporting the opposition groups and now we have to be responsible for the refugee crisis.

      I think that Putin is right. Assad is the only person who can hold Syria together and prevent a total breakdown in law and order as we have seen in Libya and Iraq.

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    2. "The world has gone mad over here, hundreds of thousands of Muslims invading Europe whose religion has the aim is to convert non Muslims or wipe them out"

      Wow! I wonder if the Christadelphian who wrote that could possibly put the shoe on the other foot and see that that picture is exactly what Christadelphians are preaching to the world!

      Christadelphians preach a future where God's aim will be to convert non-Christadelphians across the entire world, or wipe them out. See the hypocrisy? You see that picture you're afraid of? It looks a lot like you.

      Maybe now you'll understand why many people are not thrilled to hear your doomsday message.

      Having said that, I'd like to see evidence that the aims of refugees is to wipe out non-muslims. That seems to be a bold-yet-empty claim and history tells us that refugees often improve the countries that accept them. Yes, there are cases where that did not happen, like in Australia and the US when they were invaded by westerners. Uncomfortable, isn't it?

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    3. I have Facebook friends who make anti-refugee comments (mostly not Christadelphians). And Facebook friends who are pro-refugee for the reasons given in Steve's last paragraph (also not Christadelphians). The Christadelphian friends have other things to talk about.

      But Steve, how could you possibly compare the true religion with infidels? One waits for God to return and give them the go-ahead to act as pure, sinless immortals (any decade now). The other assumes (incorrectly) they know what their God wants and is intent on establishing it now. Very different.

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  8. I am the same person who addressed the first question about her racist comment.

    Let me also make mention, I am a Muslim. I grew up ignoring the religion, turned 18, and made it my own decision to start researching into it. Took me 3 years to get to where i am. So any form of brainwashing is eliminated from my situation.

    Also, that makes alot of sense as to why you ignore such a racist comment, because yes, I agress totally that it is normal to come from.a christadelphian. Just ask a christadelphian about the crisis in Palestine and Israel, says it all! Hell I even asked one what would happen if a Palestinian was christadelphian. Do they give up their own land, surrender to a facist state?

    I know a christadelphian. I see every flaw in this person when I read the blogs on here. They resist even researching outside what they have been taught to know. It's so sad! How can they ever come to know truth when all they have been taught to know is what they've been told.

    God gave us intelligence for a reason. And speaking of reason, He also gave us reason.

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    1. I will not allow discussion about Islam on this website; I don't want any of my readers targeted by Muslim extremists. The situation with that religion is way too dangerous to even discuss on the Internet.

      This discussion is closed. No more comments will be allowed.

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  9. I was just stating that I am Muslim and I know a fellow christadelphian. The reason why I mentioned it is because from my perspective and I'm sure many others as well, what Mary said was a very uneducated claim. But, that's not even important anymore because I know you also think the same of her statement because we all know that christadelphians says things that are out of line and I blame this totally on the fact that they are taught not to reason with themselves and not to use their own intelligence outside of the christadelphian box to come to any form of conclusion.

    I totally understand how you might feel about any form of religion after being raised a christadelphian. The same happened to me - as a child I was told to certain things that I could not do but I never understood, so I eventually despised my relgion. And the reason I mentioned that I went back and searched it at 18 is so that I can inform you that my opinion is in no way based upon being brainwashed or limited to a life based on one religion.

    Also, I don't think it's dangerous to talk about Islam. I definitely admit there are dangerous people representing the religion, but take it from me, those people are uneducated, probably never went to a class to learn the religion out of self-motivation, and theyre usually psychos wanting to justify actions in the name of religion through wrong interpretation.

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    1. Anon,
      Thank you for your contribution, however please respect the blog owners wishes and refrain from discussing Islam. Invariably SOME Christadelphians do say things that are, as you put it, "out of line" -mostly as a result of a restricted world view brought on by a cult-like teaching atmosphere and restricted social interaction.
      If you wish to understand what Christadelphians think with regard to Islam, the book "The Bible and Islam" by Christadelphian John Thorpe is a good starting point, although you may struggle to obtain a copy as it is an "in house" publication. (see this review though: http://www.testimony-magazine.org/back/oct2004/nicholls.pdf). I certainly learned from it and although an Ex-Christadelphian it remains on my bookshelf as a quick reference.
      Either way, it is NOT up for discussion here.

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  10. Thank you Joseph, I will have a look!

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