Gog and Magog invade Israel - To discuss military co-operation!

By John Bedson
 
After 175 years of the Christadelphians telling us that "Gog" of Ezekiel chapter 38 is Russia invading Israel prior to the return of Christ in our own times, we read this in Arutz Sheva Israeli new website this morning:

"Russian military officials were to hold talks with their Israeli counterparts in Tel Aviv on Tuesday after the countries' leaders agreed to establish a mechanism to avoid accidental clashes in Syria. Israel's military confirmed the two-day meeting on "regional coordination," which comes after Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu and Russian President Vladimir Putin held talks last month related to Syria. The two agreed on a mechanism to avoid "misunderstandings" and clashes in Syrian airspace between the two militaries' jets. Tuesday's talks were to include Russian Deputy Chief of Staff Nikolai Bogdanovsky and his Israeli counterpart Yair Golan."
Once again the Christadelphians have been shown to be wrong about Bible prophecy, just as they are wrong about everything. Russia is not going to invade Israel because they know that if they do they will be immediately nuked by Israel, France, Britain, the United States and Saudi Arabia using the nuclear weapons they purchased from Pakistan. The Saudis won't want the Russians grabbing their oil.

The Christadelphians can wait a thousand years and Russia will NEVER invade Israel. But even a thousand years from now the Christadelphians will still be telling people that Russia is about to invade Israel and that this will bring about the return of Christ in their lifetimes.

Ezekiel was wrong about Tyre being conquered and destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar, wrong about Egypt being laid waste, wrong about Israel dwelling safely in our times and wrong about everything else that he predicted. He will be wrong about Gog and Magog.

Christadelphians (like me thirty years ago) who lecture on this subject are suffering from the delusion of apophenia. There is no evidence that the Bible can predict the future. 

30 comments:

  1. They are saying it now, all this Russian military build up in Syria, according to CD's it's the beginning, next would be a move by Russia to invade Israel.

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  2. In a few years time when Russia has left Syria, we will be able to refer back to this article and to my comment here and demonstrate that Ex-Christadelphians using their common-sense were better at foretelling the future than the Christadelphians with their worthless Bibles.

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  3. I used to watch a lot of prophecy talks by CD sometimes I used to fall asleep because of another repeat. I started to notice that they were post-predicting prophecy (i.e. after the event had already happened) and when they try to predict the future. It never happened Jim Cowie claimed in 2011 that we would be taken to judgement by the end of the year well that was just another false prophecy

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    1. Peter: Your deconversion is coming along nicely; congratulations; it is almost complete. You are starting to make sense at last. Do you consider yourself to be an Ex-Christadelphian yet?

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    2. Thank you John. Yes I am happy to say that I am an Ex-Christadelphian now

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  4. I don't agree with the interpretation that "It's got to be Russia". As you say, Israel isn't the most obvious target for Russia.
    But I think there's a big difference between two major powers saying "Let's try to avoid tripping over each other" and saying "Let's be friends".
    Peace agreements have also been used to put a potential enemy off their guard before suddenly striking (in fact, Hitler did that to Russia).

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    1. JJ: Are you aware that Russia is one of Israel's largest customers for arms? The Russian air force for example is equipped with Israeli manufactured drones that can fire rockets. The Israelis are discussing with Russia that the Russians defend the Israeli gas fields in the Med and the Russians ship the gas for them. Israel is very close with Russia. There is no way that Putin will invade Israel. If he did, many Russian cities would be annihilated by Israeli submarine launched nuclear missiles, including the main Russian navy base in the Crimea and their smaller one in Syria. Needless to say the advancing Russian ground troops would be nuked by the Israelis.

      I have a friend in the Israeli nuclear warhead program. They could wipe out the UK, Russia, France, Germany, Iran or whoever they want in a short time. The Germans gave them the submarines, the US gave them the missiles and the Israelis manufactured the warheads.

      "Gog" would be to scared to invade Israel. It's all a load of Christadelphian clap-trap. EVERYTHING that the Christadelphians say is wrong, Wrong, WRONG!

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    2. John, I was not aware of the arms deals.
      I was definitely aware of the nuclear deterrent (though that's a mixed bag - might be handy against an official attack by Russia, but not very useful in the day to day struggles with Gaza or Hezbollah).

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  5. For a blog which claims to have a rational approach to the 'reality' of what is in the Bible I find this post to be drastically lacking in evidence to the point that I'd find more evidence to back up this view if I were reading a tabloid right now.

    However given that you have published a view on Russia’s recent move I feel compelled to explain the truth to anyone who might be reading this.

    Lets put the Christadelphian view aside (which I happen to believe is accurate) and talk this through logically.

    Anyone who studies their Bible and understands what is said of the Gogian autocracy will know that what Russia has done in the Middle East makes perfect sense prophetically on many levels.

    Firstly, as a basis for your view, you quote from an Israeli website and make the ridiculous assumption that because a website has reported that Putin is having coordination talks with Netanyahu that… “Russia will NEVER invade Israel”.

    Wow. Flawless logic my dear Watson except that a few months ago the following happened:

    Sergey Lavrov, the Russian Foreign Minister, assured the press that Russia would absolutely NOT give military assistance to Syria.

    A few months later, Russia gave military assistance to Syria.

    If you follow Russian politics you will know that this style of “diplomacy” is normal in Russian international relations and it something which has kept the EU on its toes for the last 20 years or more.

    However your eagerness to use a newspaper clipping as a basis for an entire construct which apparently disproves the Christadelphians, reflects your ignorance in the field of not only geopolitics, but more importantly Bible prophecy.

    Let me give you a tip. If Russia was going to hold a massive ground invasion in Israel, they wouldn’t do it with 20 war planes based in Latakia.

    And while you search the news websites for more ‘evidence’ for or against a Russian invasion, here is another tip: don’t waste your time reading and disseminating propaganda.

    Putin isn’t going to hold a press conference before he invades Israel.

    Amongst other things it is worth noting that Russia has been known for its centuries old military doctrine is called Maskirovka – otherwise known as ‘Deception’. The prophet Daniel says of the Roman Empire (including its latter day manifestation - the Gogian autocracy led by Russia) in Daniel 8:25, “By Peace, he shall destroy many". “He will cause deceit to prosper”.

    Gog/Russia is deceptive and we see this both prophetically and culturally in the Russian military doctrine.

    Infact we even saw it when Russia said they wouldn’t give Syria military assistance.

    Your second conclusion that “Russia will be immediately nuked” also demonstrates that you come to some very dramatic conclusions very quickly.

    The world has not tasted nuclear war since Hiroshima and Nagasaki 70 years ago and so the truth is you have no idea how Russia might approach this tacitly, a lot has changed in 70 years.

    From a prophetical view point it makes perfect sense for Russia to be in Syria before it invades Israel:

    1) The heartland of the Ancient ‘King of the Norths’ Empire of Daniel 11 (the Seleucid Empire) was in Syria – to be accurate, along the Tigris and Euphrates. The King of the North in Dan 11 is and was considered to be the occupying power of that region. Russia is in the process of becoming an occupying power of that same region in Syria and in doing so is beginning to establish itself as the latter day King of the North.

    2) The nation who invades Israel in the last days is also known as the latter day Assyrian. Where was the heartland of the Assyrian Empire? … also in the Tigris and Euphrates.

    So as Russia has moved into Syria and has started bombing (mostly rebels at this point but increasingly ISIS in the Euphrates) it is beginning to inadvertently establish itself as both the latter day King of the North and the latter day Assyrian before it invades Israel (which could be many years away yet).


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    1. Ezekiel ch 37:24 predicts that at the time of Israel's rebirth as a nation "David my servant will be king over them!" Who is that? "David" Ben Gurion?! :)

      Ezekiel ch 38:11 predicts that the Israelis will " dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls and having neither bars nor gates." - Nothing could be further removed from the truth of the current day situation. Modern Israel is a land of fortified settlements, checkpoints, armed police and soldiers and Arabs stabbing, shooting, blowing up Israelis and shooting rockets in from Gaza and Lebanon on almost an hourly basis.

      Russia is good friends with Israel and with the new US policy of favouring Iran, Israel is once again tilting towards Russia as an ally. Netanyahu visits Moscow approximately twice a year to chat with Putin and even has a hotline direct to his office.

      Ezekiel ch 38:5 says that Ethiopia and Libya will invade with Gog. There is no chance of that happening. The Ethiopians are starving and the Libyans are fighting each other or migrating to Europe to escape their failed State.

      Ezekiel 38:12 says that Gog invades Israel for "spoil." The only "spoil" that they could get from Israel is the gas fields out in the Mediterranean Sea near Cyprus. A fleet of Russian ships could capture that without invading Israel. But the gas is not worth much at today's prices, the rigs are American, not Israeli and Gasprom is quoting to ship and sell the oil. Why would the Russians want to start World War Three and get Moscow nuked for a bit of gas when they already have the largest reserves in the World? It makes no sense.

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    2. Ezekiel ch 40 onwards predicts that after the destruction of Gog a new temple will be built in Jerusalem with a vast animal sacrifice system in place. - So what was the point of the sacrifice and atonement of Christ? He came to fulfill the law (Matthew 5:17) and yet Ezekiel thinks that it is all going to be put back in place. He obviously knew nothing of Christ because he predicted that King David would rule over the Israelis for eternity (ch 37:25). - So who is to rule, Christ or David?

      Ezekiel ch 39:10 predicts that burning the spears and other wooden weapons of Gog as a source of fuel will mean that the Israelis won't have to chop down trees of the forest for fuel for seven years. So why would they want to do that when they are all on the electric grid and they can cook with natural gas from the Med? - Ezekiel did not have the faintest idea what he was talking about. His predictions were all pure nonsense.

      You are stricken with the mental delusion of apophenia. Your fideist faith has driven you mad and you clutch at straws to attempt to make the Bible prophecies fit with events of our own times even though those predictions are nonsensical in our own times and also highly contradictory one with another.

      Thirty years ago I was afflicted with apohenia just like you. I gave many hundreds of talks on the subject, I wrote two booklets on it, I produced a thirty minute movie "The Miracle of Israel" that contained all of this "Gog and Magog" crap and I printed over a million full colour leaflets adverting the film. It was shown all around the World. I spoke to a packed audience of 1,200 people in the Birmingham Town Hall on this very subject. You Claire have not done the smallest fraction of what i did to promote this latter day invasion of Gog idea. But I now realise that I was being extremely foolish. The prophecies of Ezekiel etc were predicting a return from Babylonian exile and subsequent return of the Messiah that did not take place. The Jews did return from Babylon, but everything else worked out differently to the predictions of the Biblical prophets. The prophecies failed and trying to make them fit into our own times 2,500 years later is ridiculous.

      Time will tell. In a few years or less this Syria thing will all blow over and nothing will come of it. Christ will not return and Christadelphians will be harping on about some new thing that they claim indicates the imminent return of Christ. They have done it for almost two hundred years and Christians have done it for 2,000 years. Einstein said that "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - That's what you Christadelphians and Christians do. You interpret World events in your own times as proof that the return of Christ is near. And he never comes. He never will. It is insanity. It is apophenia.

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  6. Thanks John.

    In highlighting a Newspaper clipping to support your understanding of Ezekiel (!!) you have successfully proven to your audience that you are not only a victim of apophenia, but that you enjoy willing ignorance.

    As I noted earlier with just one recent example, Russia, after insisting that they wouldn't put an operational military presence in Syria, did so a few months later.

    Perhaps this wasn’t clear enough?

    Remember what Putin did when he annexed Crimea? He denied that it had happened until a few days later.
    Remember what Putin did when he invaded Georgia? He denied that it happened until a few days later.

    We could go on and on analysing Russia’s past military strategies.

    However in one sweeping blow, you quickly dismiss centuries of Russian military history & culture and seem absolutely sure, based on… a random article you found online?! - that Russia will definitely keep to its word this time with regard to Israel.

    Your way of reasoning is a disservice even to those who call themselves evidence based atheists.

    Why so eager to base your conclusions on sources that are already proven to be unreliable?

    How is this not a display of willing ignorance?

    Why accuse me of apophenia when you clearly ignore the facts yourself?

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  7. Regarding your opinions on the aspect of Ezekiel 38 which remain unfulfilled.
    Firstly you have incorrectly quote from a source - There is no such thing as Ezekiel 38:24 and David is not mentioned in that chapter either.
    You are correct in saying that many of those things you have listed haven’t come to pass. This is true. Infact if you want a whole list I have much bigger list of prophecies throughout the Bible that are yet unfulfilled. However this in itself does not prove the Bible or Ezekiel wrong. Prophecy was never meant to be fulfilled overnight. Why should we expect it to be?
    While these prophecies haven’t yet been fulfilled, it is encouraging to note that the global geopolitics of today (compared to 100 years ago) is far more compatible with what we would expect from latter day prophecy.
    To note only a few:
    - The Ottoman Empire has been driven back as Bro. Thomas showed based on Daniel & Revelation.
    - Egypt and Israel have both recently discovered large amounts of wealth generating resources as we would expect from – the only two nations who are mentioned having a spoil taken from them in Daniel 11 & Ezek 38.
    - Russia has moved into the area of the King of the North and Assyria to assert itself as the latter day invader. (As I point out it could be many more years before it actually invades)
    - Large amounts of Iranian ground troops are now supporting Russia as we would expect from Ezek 38.
    - The Papacy are calling for military force in Syria to defend Christians there and Russia as the Christian defender has responded to the call (The two horns are beginning to unite as prophesied).
    None of that was anywhere near fulfilled in John Thomas’s time.
    I grant that not everything has fallen into place yet. Why should it? If you want to read about things that happen overnight read Harry Potter. To look at unfulfilled events in Ezekiel 38 and assert that Ezekiel’s prophecies are incorrect because not all of them are fulfilled only testifies to a lack of patience not a lack of truth. Prophecy is about Gods long term plan of salvation spanning thousands of years - not fulfilment of our short term impatience or fulfilment within our lifetime.

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    1. I meant Ezekiel 37:24 when I referred to David being king over Israel prior to the invasion of Gog. In 37:25 Ezekiel predicts that David will be the King of the Jews for eternity.Please explain that to me.

      You do not appear to understand the meaning of the word "apophenia" so we can't discuss that.

      I have never met anyone suffering from apophenia who understood what it meant.

      Those prophecies were written 2,500 years ago and they are still not fulfilled. They were not fulfilled when the Jews returned to Israel from Babylon and they have not been fulfilled during the past two and a half thousand years. There comes a time when you have to accept that the bus is never going to arrive and that the timetable must have been in error.

      You have been indoctrinated into a faith based religion and your mind is deluded by apophenia. You see patterns in random world events that do not exist in reality.

      Christ predicted that he would return in the generation living in his lifetime. He lied. The people who said in the second century AD "Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation" (2 Peter 3:4) were right. If they had lived another two thousand years they would be rolling on the floor laughing that people like you are still waiting for him to return.

      I am sixty three years old. For approximately fifty five years I have heard Christadelphians trying to correlate world events to Bible prophecy and for twenty years I did it myself off Christadelphian platforms. But now I realise that it was just a mental delusion. There is no connection. The latter day prophecies are hopelessly contradictory and I simply cherry-picked the ones that suited my purpose and ignored the rest. I was an ass.

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    2. Time will tell. In a few months or years when this Syria thing has blown over you will be shown to have been wrong and that it has nothing to do with either the Bible or the return of Christ. That is the only decisive way to settle this matter. But like your predecessors over the past 2,500 years you will not worry one bit that you made a mistake. You will instead be focussing on some other world event and trying to force it to fit with Bible prophecy.

      My father did it before me and my Christadelphian grandfather and my Christadelphian great grandfather before him who lived at the time of John Thomas did it. I stopped doing it and I reproach myself for being such an idiot.

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    3. Remember the Six Day War in 1967? That was the year that I was baptised a Christadelphian. For years afterwards I ran around like a headless chicken telling everyone that it was related to Bible prophecy and that the return of Christ was near. I did the same thing after the Yom Kippur War.

      Look at this:Click here. "A New World Coming - God's Plan for the Future ", "The Destiny of Israel - and the Future of the World" my name (John Bedson) after my late friend Harry Whittacker and Percy Mansfield. You can still purchase the rubbish books that I wrote on this subject thirty years after I realised my mistake and resigned.

      You need to come to your senses Claire and think rationally. Those prophecies are a load of contradictory nonsense that has never been fulfilled and never will be fulfilled. They were composed by human con-artists and you and the Christadelphians have been naïve enough to fall for it.

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    4. You Christadelphians should be grateful that hundreds of Ex-Christadelphians have left the religion and that we bother to take the time to attempt to save you from wasting your time and effort following that mistaken religion.

      But we know that you are smitten with fideism, apophenia, confirmation bias and indoctrination. We know how incredibly difficult it is to free your minds from these delusions because it was so very hard for us to throw off the shackles of our own Christadelphian delusion. It is close to impossible to do it. But somehow or other we managed to escape the cult-like grasp of our brethren and sisters and gain our freedom.

      Very few of you will ever get to know how brilliant it feels to escape a cult and to stand free. I am so sorry for you. And I am so proud of the few who come to their senses and make it to freedom and rational, unfettered thought.

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  8. Claire Lawrence,

    Nice to hear from someone new. You seem to be able to put together a reasonable argument, so I have some questions I hope you wouldn't mind answering for me. I'd be happy to discuss things further if you like. I just have some genuine questions and would like to know what you think. I'd even be happy to discuss this offline if you'd prefer, but we can do so here for now.

    //Anyone who studies their Bible and understands what is said of the Gogian autocracy will know that what Russia has done in the Middle East makes perfect sense prophetically on many levels. //

    I'm interested to know how you came to that conclusion.

    More fundamentally, I want to know how you arrived at the conclusion that the Bible's references to Gog have anything to do with modern events in the world. I'm not interested so much in how you tie it to Russia specifically (I sat through many lectures explaining these details and once believed it myself). I'm more interested in why you think these verses should be interpreted this way at all?

    Why not another interpretation? What makes you so sure you've interpreted the chapter(s) correctly?

    There are certainly other interpretations of the various chapters in Ezekiel and Daniel. Without some divine tap on the shoulder, I'm curious how one should decide which (if any) is correct?

    //The nation who invades Israel in the last days is also known as the latter day Assyrian. Where was the heartland of the Assyrian Empire? … also in the Tigris and Euphrates.//

    Where does it say this? Is there any mention of a "latter day Assyria" in the Bible?

    All I can find are mentions of simply "Assyria" and "Assyrians" with no indication that the author was talking about anyone except the nation they themselves knew by this name.

    While searching for "latter day Assyria", I happened to find an article at testimony-magazine.com, which contained this paragraph:

    "It has been a sound practice in our community
    for many years in the interpretation of latter-day
    prophecy to assume that if an ancient nation is no
    longer to be found on the map then the latter-day
    occupant of that nation’s territory is being referred
    to by the prophet. "

    This allegedly "sound" practice puzzles me a bit. This article made no attempt to justify this practice, and I can't come up with any justifications of it myself. Your comments seemed to assume a similar methodology, so I thought I'd ask if you can explain it for me.

    Could you perhaps help me understand why you believe this is a reliable and accurate method to follow? Perhaps even something in the Bible that demonstrates that this is in fact what was intended by these passages. Or otherwise some justification for this method of exegesis.

    Off the top of my head I can see a couple of problems with this practice:
    1. If a referenced nation no longer exists, surely that should falsify the prophecy. If we repeatedly come up with ad-hoc re-interpretations in order to keep the prophecy "open", we run the risk of making the resulting prophecy unfalsifiable. That would seriously undermine the reliability of such a method.

    2. Some of these nations are replaced by other nations with different borders (Assyria again being a typical example), such that it becomes difficult to identify whether the territory is now occupied by just 1 or several nations, or half a nation. On what basis should we select the nation or nations that are to replace the now-extinct nation? And what reasons would support this methodology?

    Lastly, what criteria or what events would convince you that the prophecies had failed?

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  9. Claire Lawrence,

    I have just a few more things to ask. I hope you'll indulge me.

    //Prophecy is about Gods long term plan of salvation spanning thousands of years - not fulfilment of our short term impatience or fulfilment within our lifetime. //

    I understand your objections here. I'm willing to let that slide for now.

    What I am interested in is, if prophecies can always be deferred to the future, how will you know whether a prophecy is true or false? Suppose in a few years time you see events that seem to match the prophecy. How do you know that the similarities are not just imagined? How would you know it wasn't a false positive, and that the "real" fulfilment was not still in the future?

    More importantly, if prophecy is supposed to be a yardstick by which to measure the veracity of the Bible, how would you know if you were wrong? Without such criteria, we surely cannot prove a prophecy to be true or false...

    As you are probably aware, the Bible was written as a collection of books, by different authors. If a prophecy was somehow confirmed to be true (even though we haven't established the criteria for that yet), this would only validate the particular author who wrote it down (presumably he/she had outside information from some other source - presumably called God). How does this give us any more confidence in the other books?

    If an author predicted some events correctly but made other predictions that failed, what should we do with this information?

    What are your thoughts on the prophecy in Ezekiel 29? This prophecy claims that Egypt would be uninhabited for 40 years, during the reign of Nebuchadnezzar. This puts a strict time limit on when the prophecy could have occurred, and it seems to me that there was never a time in Egypt's history when this could have been the case. We have historical records covering the entire period.

    To date I've never read a good answer to that. What are your thoughts?

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    1. I realise I've asked a lot of questions. I don't need an answer for each of them. Just perhaps the main points I raised? Thanks in advance :)

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    2. Steve: Getting a Christadelphian to discuss anything that they believe is like asking an Arachnophobic to swallow a spider. I don't expect that Claire will answer and I don't even expect that "Claire" is his or her real name. He or she might not even be a Christadelphian. They are just here to tell you their opinion and they have a mental block against comprehending anything that does not support what they are saying.

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    3. //They are just here to tell you their opinion and they have a mental block against comprehending anything that does not support what they are saying.//

      Sounds like a Christadelphian to me. :P

      My apologies to Christadelphians who do not fit that description (and I know a few).

      I must say I'm pretty disappointed not to hear back from Claire. I did suspect I'd hear crickets, because people of faith seem to dislike their beliefs being subjected to critical thinking. They often take it as a personal attack, which I can assure everyone is not the case here. Anyway, doesn't the Bible tell you to always be ready to give an answer for why you believe? (1 Pet 3:15)

      I'm genuinely interested in the answers to my questions. Imagine if I found myself in front of Jesus and he asked why I didn't believe. I'd have to say that I looked everywhere for evidence but found none that convinced me, and when I asked Christadelphians for answers, they ignored me. Yes I know, this is pretty unlikely to happen. If I found myself in front of Jesus I'd probably just check myself into an asylum.

      Anyway, for those that are interested, I've consolidated my questions from here and put them into a new article on the Christadelphian approach to Bible Prophecy, which you can read by clicking the link below:

      The flawed methodology behind Christadelphian Bible Prophecy

      I leave the invitation open to Claire or other Christadelphians to please answer my questions. This is not a Goliath-style challenge. If your beliefs are as solid as you claim, it should be pretty straightforward to do. I just want to know how it works.

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    4. I thought your questions were pretty straight Steve. However I'll donate £50 to the local hospice if you get anything resembling a straight answer from "Claire". I'm nowhere near as nice as you, I would have asked her to tell us how sure of her own salvation she is, on a scale of 1-10, and if it is between 8 and 10, what she has done to earn it, and if below 5, what she is going to do to up her chances. This question will normally strike a Christadelphian dumb, or into a counter attack as to what YOU are doing wrong.
      Thomas Paine said:
      " A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance of being right"
      It's that that "Claire" has to figure out.

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    5. It's got less to do with me being nice and a lot to do with strategy.

      I try to take the approach that is most likely to get people to respond. I obviously still haven't got it right.

      It's not all just strategy though. I genuinely do want to know how they would respond. I really am interested to know how believers think.

      I know how *I* thought as a believer, but there came a time when my desire to know the truth overpowered my fear of being wrong. The more I learned, the less I believed. My faith was destroyed not simply by me deciding not to believe, but by new information, and a more reliable approach to truth.

      If a believer could provide solid evidence and reasoning for why they believe, I'd definitely welcome that. But they won't. It's worse than that. They won't even try. Are they embarrassed by what they believe? What are they afraid of?

      There's no need to fear being wrong. If they admitted they were wrong on something I'd have the utmost respect for them. It's when they hide from questions that I see them as dishonest cowards.

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  10. The Russia idea is a bit of a guess... im afraid. Time will tell!

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  11. « Breaking News »
    Moscow reports new hot line with Israel’s military

    DEBKAfile October 15, 2015, 4:09 PM (IDT)
    Russia's defense ministry said Thursday that its forces in Syria had set up a "hotline" with Israel's military to avoid clashes in the sky over the war-torn country. "Mutual information-sharing on the actions of aircraft has been established through a hotline between the Russian aviation command center at the Hmeimim air base and a command post of the Israeli air force," ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov was quoted as saying by Interfaxnews agency. He said the two sides were holding practice sessions on the new line.

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  12. Too many incorrect presumptions and assertions in "Claire's" post to answer. I will say that Gog is not Russia and the "prophecy" in Ezekiel is not a prophecy but something that happened and is recorded in the book of Esther as the battle that led to the Jewish feast that celebrates it. Also, it is recorded by Ezra. It was all a commemoration of an ancient ballte - not a prophecy at all.

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    1. I meant "battle", my typing is not very good today - chemotherapy.

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    2. Gog and Magog has reference to king Giges of Lydia, who was richer than Nebuchadnezzar but far less powerful. The second kingdom of the book of Daniel is referring to this king and not Cyrus of Persia who was way more powerful than Nebuchadnezzar. The third kingdom of Daniel is referring to Cyrus and the fourth is referring to Alexander the Great the feet and toes are is divided kingdom - especially the north and south division, represented by the feet..

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  13. yes for years i thought it mean a russian leader also, still might.. no one really knows, but corky is right it appears elsewhere and refers to other thins people also.. yes the magagites did rule in southern Russia... but does the word mean that in Ezekial?? no one knows....in fact many scholars say it has nothing to do with that at all..

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