Have your say: Why do you believe?

See a great new article by Steve Pryde at: http://exchristovoiceofreason.blogspot.com.au/2014/05/have-your-say-why-do-you-believe.html

Please add to the discussion at that page.

5 comments:

  1. I used to be a Christadelphian (X'ad) - was brought up in it. But in my late thirties something in me began stirring. It all seemed to centre around Jesus - I began to realise that the X'ad view of Him was defective and that none of us had a living relationship with Him. The Bible was showing me something more! Between the knowledge of the Jesus of the past, and the Jesus of the future, there seemed a big void in the middle. I thought. "How can I have a relationship with someone (Jesus) that I don't have any communication with?" I began voicing my thoughts and questions and wasn't happy with the responses I was getting. I wrote an article about Jesus to the magazine, which was published, and I had some favourable responses from some more open minded; and some unfavourable. At one time, the meeting I was a member of, had been quite large. Now it was just a few. But still the same No of chairs were being put out! There would be one person in the front row, a couple in the next - chairs apart - and so on - right to the back. It was awkward reaching, when the bread and wine came round! It grieved me that they all seemed happy with this! We were at a 'love feast' - with no love! When challenged gently, there was defensiveness. Anyway, not long after, quite unexpectedly, I was invited by a Christian couple to ask Jesus to come into my life! That was the point at which I was changed! The Holy Spirit opened my eyes and I saw many parts of Scripture in a new light! At first, I carried on going to the meetings, and told what had happened to me and pointed to verses which were now screaming at me - showing many X'ad doctrines wrong - but they could not 'see'! I was told that I had been deluded and was warned that I was "departing from first principles"! I knew it was time to leave. Btw, I can't understand how some Christians can say they believe the Bible and yet believe in the theory of evolution - albeit that God started it all off! The NT clearly teaches that death was imposed on mankind for the punishment of sin - and yet evolution requires death to have been a feature from the beginning. Don't tell me that a collection of cells are capable of sin! So - at what point in the evolution of humans, did we become able to understand what sin was, and become liable to the punishment for it? And how could death have been the punishment for sin when everything had been dying already? How could Jesus base his teaching on marriage, on Adam and Eve, if they were not created as stated by him, but mere mythical characters? Also, why did God require the Israelites to keep the Sabbath (7th day of each week) in commemoration of His having rested on the 7th day of the week of creation, if in fact He just kick started evolution millions of years ago? Selah!

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    1. //So - at what point in the evolution of humans, did we become able to understand what sin was, and become liable to the punishment for it? And how could death have been the punishment for sin when everything had been dying already? How could Jesus base his teaching on marriage, on Adam and Eve, if they were not created as stated by him, but mere mythical characters? Also, why did God require the Israelites to keep the Sabbath (7th day of each week) in commemoration of His having rested on the 7th day of the week of creation, if in fact He just kick started evolution millions of years ago?//

      All of these questions and more are answered by those who accept theistic evolution. If you had read their material, you'd know that.

      If your questions were genuine (which I'm suspicious of, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt), then you can also have a read of biologos.org and find all your answers there and a lot more answers to questions you probably never thought to ask.

      In short though, there are some who think the whole lot is allegorical and intended to teach a different lesson, rather than literal history.

      There are others who still accept Adam and Eve (and everything thereafter) as a literal, yet separate, creation and thus the death as a penalty for sin thing only applied to them. There are some gaps in my understanding of it, so if you are genuine about wanting to know the answers, I'd encourage you to talk to some EC believers and find out. You may learn something interesting.

      But if your questions were simply empty rhetoric, as if merely asking the question counts as an argument, then I find such lines of reasoning shallow. All it tells me is that you've never read material from theistic evolutionists, and you're not genuinely seeking to understand it.

      As for your comments regarding your enlightened understanding of the Bible, thanks to the Holy Spirit, I have a question for you. Does the Holy Spirit say different (and contradictory) things to different people, regarding the interpretation of Bible passages? That's something we can test. There are a lot of people who claim to have the correct interpretation of the Bible, and they also claim that the Holy Spirit revealed that to them. Many of them disagree with each other, and no doubt many of them disagree with you as well. How can we determine who is correct, if any of you even are?

      You've described the reaction of Christadelphians to your new beliefs. How do you know they're wrong? How could they know that you're right? And wouldn't they just say the same thing back to you?

      The easiest way to disprove any religion is to listen to what other religions say about them. You're all experts at disproving each other, but somehow can't see yourselves from an outsider's perspective. Why do you think that is?

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    2. I think there's a very simple answer: some people believe in the existence of a creative God. And they also believe (based not on the Bible, but on evidence) that evolution happened. Put those two together, and you have no other alternative than to believe in evolutionary creationism.

      Personally, I think the theological issues you raise are issues. But if you wish to stay a believer and accept what the world around us is telling us, which is better: to have theological issues to work through, or to conclude that God is lying and/or the Bible is false? Because I'm pretty sure that's what it comes down to for EC enthusiasts.

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    3. Anonymous: I get your point about the way your meeting arranged the chairs. The whole thing is a disgrace and I'm still reeling from the shock of it all. How could they do such a thing? What were they thinking? It certainly demonstrates that the Christadelphians can't possibly have the Truth if they don't even understand how to arrange chairs correctly! :)

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  2. I would say you simply have a different take on it now days... The people who have read that book the longest in the history of the world..dont agree with you on certain points you make.. dont bother me too too much.. but just stating a fact.

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